Obama and UFOs
Tuesday December 2, 2008
Will our new President do anything about UFO disclosure? In an interview with the late Tim Russert, Obama once remarked that he was more interested in the plight of everyday Americans than aliens. I can understand that, considering the economic and social problems we are experiencing at this time.
However, that does not necessarily mean that he won't try to release information on UFOs, as long as there is a concerted effort among Americans to make their desires know. The Million Fax on Washington, is a perfect example.
It seems that once he takes office in January, 2009, his agenda will be pretty full. But, in time, he may get around to UFOs.
What do you think? Weigh in on our latest poll, Will Barack Obama affect the release of UFO files to the public?
Poll Results:
Thanks to all of you who voted and commented on our Obama poll. Here are the final results of that poll.
Will Obama affect release of UFO files?
Yes, for sure, (70) 14%
Maybe, (182) 37%
Definitely No, (234) 48%
Comments
It’s not about the people of this country forcing the hand of a president to disclose all documentation/reports/proven UFO debris/alien bodies, etc to the public. This was tried with prsidents and public out cry in the past. It’s about the willingness of those “in the know” to ALLOW disclosure. This is a very serious social issue. Disclosure will occur. There are signs now that we are in the process of disclosure. There are many “in the know”, military(Navy/Army) and those within the CIA that want it done. We have to be patient. Think of the implications when it does happen.
And what if there is, in fact, nothing to disclose? What if there is no conspiracy? No secret bases housing dead aliens? No reverse-engineered ET technology? What if the ‘denials’ turn out to be the truth? What happens then? Is the UFO lobby going to pack up its conspiracy theories and walk away? Or would a negative result simply reinforce the existing theories? Hypothetically speaking, how would the new president satisfy them that there is no conspiracy?
The disclosure demands are fine - but they are founded on an assumed premise and in the interest of objectivity that should be acknowledged.
What feeds these conspiracy theories are credible witnesses that have come out of seclusion. They are astronauts, politicians, military, FAA, NASA, and the list goes on. Many have kept their mouths shut for fear of retaliation. There is merit to the conspiracy theories in this case. I wish they were wrong.
Disclosure will occur soon, dread the day.
The trouble with the credibility of witnesses is that it’s such a subjective judgement. ‘Credible’ might well mean that they’ve seen or experienced what they claim; or it might mean that their claims match the observer’s favoured hypothesis and thus they haven’t really been questioned too deeply.
And why do you ‘wish they were wrong’? You say ‘dread the day’ - but why? Personally, I’ll wait and see. If disclosure comes then fair enough. As I said, though, the problem is if there is *no* conspiracy. For conspiracy theorists, the entire issue is essentially a matter of faith: “everyone knows”; therefore it’s true, but ‘They’ are hushing it up. That being the case, as I said, from a conspiracy theorist’s point of view the only conceivable satisfactory outcome would be full disclosure and the revelation of the existence of ETs. But the possibility that there might *not* be a conspiracy doesn’t seem to be given house room.
And what about the possibility that the stories of aliens and spaceships were actually encouraged during the Cold War as a means to distract attention from what the US Government were doing? Again, the only Government response acceptable to the conspiracy theorists will be, “yes, there are aliens, and here they are”. Anything else will simply be dismissed as more ‘disinformation’.
Further, what if the cover-up is admitted but it doesn’t go far enough? What if the Government admits it’s been investigating UFOs and has wreckage - but doesn’t know what they are? Or even knows they’re alien, but the conspiracy theorist wants an admission of collaboration? Where do the demands stop? Where can satisfaction be for the conspiracy lobby?
If you make these demands then you must allow for the possibility of a negative response. Otherwise, there’s no real point in making the demand in the first place, because you’re not interested in truth: you’re looking for personal vindication.
If, as suggested, there is a disclosure and it is not what most expect to hear, I personally can say it will not matter. For those like me who have seen the ships and beings WE will always know the truth. They are real.
To Dogran: It is evident that you have not researched the subject along the lines of those witnesses as their testimonies and held physical evidences are real and have be found truthful. This is beyond conspiracy theories, respectfully. And I can see in your line of questioning that you are over analyzing this subject philosophically. It is what it is. Call a spade a spade. The primary networks, ABC and CNN, are taking the subject more seriously, as well as the world. Why? Because of obvious credible witness testimonies and evidences that they have heard/seen behind the sceans. These people are putting their lives in jeopardy coming forward. They are in tears explaining themselves. They are now in the hundreds and have come together to present these truths. They are the factor that is driving disclosure.
Which leads me to the reason why I dread the day disclosure occurs. If you want to analyze anything on this subject, analyze what will happen socially to this world when disclosure does occur. Especially to second and third world power. Fear and uncertainty will run rampant. All that we know will be changed. Who will be the one who takes this technical knowledge? How will it be dispensed? The powers, political, commercial, and religious will be subject to question when/if ET does make contact, having millions of years more experience then you and I. Then you will know why I fear it.
I’ve been researching the subject for over 30 years..Trust me they exist..You may find it hard to believe but we are here because of them..Partly,this is why the truth is being witheld from the masses.
As experiencers it takes strength of character to come here on Billys website to share with others what we have seen. There are kind people who are genuinely interested and then there are others who are quick to annihilate us. Just think of those reading our blogs who have their own strange encounters to tell but will not share because of fearing ridicule.
I do hope your new Government will finally say something only if to admit the ufo/other worldly exist but reasons as yet unknown.
I doubt it somehow when I think of the scientists at Nasa, Seti and elsewhere striving to reach out looking for intelligent life…why would they if solid ufo/aliens are supposedly already here.
I dont know the answers. The psychologist Carl Jung said a one liner which was….”Something is seen, but one doesnt know what”
Pete said:
“To Dogran: It is evident that you have not researched the subject along the lines of those witnesses as their testimonies and held physical evidences are real and have be found truthful. This is beyond conspiracy theories, respectfully.”
You seem to be rushing to lump me in with the sceptics. Be careful, because the ‘us or them’ attitude is part of the problem. As it happens, my own experiences have firmly convinced me that these things exist. I ‘believe’ in them in much the same way that I believe in the keyboard I’m typing on right now.
My issue here is not whether they exist. It’s firstly what they are; secondly whether the government (any government) knows more about them than it’s letting on; and thirdly the logical basis of demands for disclosure.
As to what they are, it would be easy to say ‘aliens’ and leave it at that. As it is, I don’t think it’s quite that simple. I do believe that there’s life on other planets - but I don’t believe it’s visited us. And I also believe (I’d venture to say that I know) that there’s far more to *this* planet than we’ve yet dreamt of.
There is evidence, yes, but the evidence is generally either ambiguous or anecdotal. It can often be refuted or interpreted in an alternative way, and it all too often comes down to what we already believe. If you have, as your opening comment to me here implies, researched the subject extensively, then you’ll know that even the most honest of people can be unreliable when it comes to interpreting events outside their normal range of experience.
You say that people are putting their lives in jeopardy to come forward and tell their stories. But is that true? How many of these people have subsequently been ‘disappeared’ or met with implausible accidents? To a believer in the government conspiracy, this is easy to explain: once they’ve gone public, the government can’t risk doing away with them. But isn’t it also true that the government would have no need to do away with them if they pose no threat?
Finally, it’s not possible to prove that you *don’t* have something. Logically, it can’t be done. This is why Iraq was in trouble from the moment the international community started demanding it prove it had no Weapons of Mass Destruction: even if Iraq had no such weapons, there was no logical way to prove it.
If we demand ‘full disclosure’ of a government’s UFO information, we’re working on the assumed premise that the government *must* have information to disclose. If the government doesn’t have such information, then any response it can make will amount to a denial. Much like the denials it’s been making for years. This, of course, convinces nobody. But the government is in the same position that Iraq was in: even if it does not have any information, it couldn’t possibly prove it to the satisfaction of those convinced it does.
Personally, I still wonder if the whole ‘alien cover-up’ idea isn’t itself government disinformation drawing our attention away from their *real* secrets. If so, it’s worked like a dream.
Then you will know why I fear it.”
*Everything* will be changed? I’m not so sure. Don’t most people *really* believe in aliens anyway? And the hardline sceptics who refuse to accept the possibility for lack of evidence would have to revise their opinion if such evidence came to light. There might be a problem with the religious types whose faith depends on the notion that God created only one planet with life - but they’re a minority and they could always dress the aliens up as angels anyway. As to who will have the power, well, all of human history has been a technology race. I think you probably underestimate humanity’s resilience.
Dogran said “If we demand ‘full disclosure’ of a government’s UFO information, we’re working on the assumed premise that the government *must* have information to disclose.”
Ahh well there you are wrong. The French, Italians and British have released some records of UFO encounters involving the American military although on foreign soil. It is arguable whether these are all there is to tell us about these incidents, but yet the American government does not wish to even tell the public one shred of what has been going on, so there is a cover up of something, whether an unknown phenomenon or alien encounters is yet to be decided. The government just claims that no such records of ufos exists, yet that contradicts what other countries have disclosed. They say, the same as the British, that they are concerned with intrusions into airspace, yet when there seems to be an intrusion from eyewitness reports and even in some cases in Britain from actual government documents, the government officials state nothing was worth investigating.
“*Everything* will be changed? I’m not so sure. ”
Not to begin with as most people are more interested in Eastenders, big brother or whatever rubbish celebrity TV programme is on at the time. But we will see scientists and engineers wanting to get their hands on this technology, and believe me that will change our planet forever.
It’s more of what the alien agenda could be what may disturb people, and may lead to wars between humans but not aliens of course. To be honest I couldn’t care less what some half brained religious folk thought as they already claim such baffling things and anything they claim about aliens being angels is just more of the same from them.
Science has contradicted all religions many times, and will keep going on with the next breakthrough most likely proving the existence of multiverses before we get any disclosure of aliens.
And there’s always the question if they have bases here on Earth, and that they may have evolved here also, and may have been here much longer than us and therefore lay claim to the planet, especially if we keep trashing it. I suppose we will get disclosure from aliens forcing it if they are truely visiting to prevent the planet from being utterly trashed by us.
Yes I’ve seen very unusual lights which resemble typical ufo sightings with at least a dozen fighter jets in pairs intercepting the same location of the sky before they shot off really fast, but it is a big leap of faith to determine this was definitely visiting aliens. I think it’s possible they could be here, but witnesses need to stop with these assumptions otherwise science and even just ordinary folk who are generally sceptical (which is how intelligent people generally think) will keep on calling people loony.
Scepticism is the friend of witnesses, they are not there to call you a liar but just to point out less obvious flaws in eyewitness accounts. I can tell one thing for sure - that is that real sceptics will not deny the blatant visitation of aliens live on TV in front of millions of people in a major city. Only deniars would keep on refutting this, and there are probably no such thing as these deniers that most believers keep on going about, unless they are referring to government officials and a conspiracy, but that’s yet unproven.
And the majority of these sceptics if they ever experienced a completely unexplainable event would probably take more care to try and not offend other eyewitnesses, as they aren’t the evil & nasty people that believers make them out to be, they’re probably more intelligent than the average person. Although they wouldn’t want to go on TV and talk about it as an alien encounter except as speculation if they felt brave (they may just say it was a unknown though, but hardly anyone would be interested in that description) unless they have evidence to back it up, as they themselves would not believe it if somebody else has told them the same story. So they would probably not waste time in doing so, but even if some partial physical evidence is found, we find many people in the thousands suddenly come forward, and that will force disclosure, not definitive physical evidence. That is unless any aliens show themselves over a major city live on TV first. Maybe if we have another world war they will be there watching like they may have been in WW2.
Humanity’s resilience will survive but there will be casualties along the way.
Just a few more points to put across: the first being that scepticism is healthy, believing does nothing of significance to benefit humanity as a whole, except for maybe an inner peace to benefit oneself. It’s how we progress as a species by asking questions and looking for answers, not by assuming we have the answers in front of us.
The second point is that a lot of eyewitness accounts of ufos state such things as height, size and speed of what they witnessed. They don’t usually bother to state that they are likely to be 50% accurate at best therefore explaining that what they just said was worthless. To describe a sighting in such detail is most likely impossible and does not help in their credibility, and damages the ufo subject area as a whole.
I’ll give you an example of this where on a ufo sightings tv programme where this woman with no expertise in aviation (yet with expertise people still prove fallible as everyone is fallible to some degree) states with absolute certainty about an object’s height and size which she claimed to witness. I could not help myself shouting at the tv at this seemingly mad woman that she could not know either of those things with any real certainty, unless she has a radar gun and took multiple readings. Or any other device which can do the equivalent. The irony is that almost every sighting discussed on these programmes suffer from this same frailty. Is it no wonder that scientists think that all ufo witnesses are crazy when nobody takes a proper scientific approach?! And when they do nothing yet has been found or they have not bothered to make it public. I suppose we should blame the tv channel organisations for preferring to make quick money by making a ufo programme about fantastic sightings which can be easily debunked, rather than talking for an hour in depth about proper evidence such as radar returns. But I still feel the eyewitnesses should know better and members of ufology should get in contact with these witnesses and explain to them how to handle themselves better in a situation where they discuss their sightings with the media. This allows a more serious approach and then even people like me who have seen a ufo can stop laughing at people making fools out of themselves by claiming ridiculous stories.
In circumstances where pilots witness an object at similar altitudes as their own plane height information would be considered useful, as long as suitable errors in the estimates are given. And in some cases even object velocities and directions can be useful, and possibly object sizes. One example of this is the Guernsey 2007 sighting, although sometimes called the Alderney sighting. The pilot states that the object could be anywhere between the size of few jumbo jets from the first observation to a mile across at later observations. In other words bloody big but can’t say exactly how big. I thought it was funny how he said he couldn’t wait to get on the ground for a cup of tea when asked if he was scared.
Does anyone know what happened to the supposed police radar gun data that was taken in Stephenville earlier this year during a sighting? Or is this data actually worthless if it can be forged, or just taken from any hovering object including a helicopter?
John said:
“Ahh well there you are wrong. The French, Italians and British have released some records of UFO encounters involving the American military although on foreign soil. It is arguable whether these are all there is to tell us about these incidents, but yet the American government does not wish to even tell the public one shred of what has been going on, so there is a cover up of something, whether an unknown phenomenon or alien encounters is yet to be decided.”
Are you trying to suggest that these ‘encounters’ (whatever they were) were unknown to Americans until the European governments released their information recently? Of course you know this was never the case: the Rendlesham Forest incident - to name one of the most famous cases on European soil involving US forces - was well-known prior to the recent releases by the Ministry of Defence.
But - again - my question here isn’t “do UFOs exist?”. As I said previously, I believe they do. If we take ‘UFO’ to mean what it says - Unidentified Flying Object - then by definition they exist. But let’s take UFO to mean ‘paranormal phenomenon’, as all too many people do. My concern here is whether those demanding disclosure would ultimately be prepared to accept a response that doesn’t tally with their preconceived notions about conspiracies.
Say for example the US Government eventually releases details of a number of UFO investigations, and these conclude that the objects reported were atmospheric phenomena or misidentified aircraft. Would you accept such information? Or would you presume it to be a further layer of the cover-up? Are we demanding disclosure of the UFO information we presume them to hold; or are we demanding an admission of a full-on, world-changing conspiracy involving extraterrestrials and shadowy men in smoky rooms?
“But we will see scientists and engineers wanting to get their hands on this technology, and believe me that will change our planet forever.”
And who’s to say that would be a bad thing? Some, who take a step back and look at what we’ve done and continue to do, would say it badly needs changing.
“To be honest I couldn’t care less what some half brained religious folk thought as they already claim such baffling things and anything they claim about aliens being angels is just more of the same from them.”
And don’t you think a strict sceptic could say just the same thing about someone who believes in aliens - and aliens visiting Earth, no less - when there is absolutely no conclusive evidence to support such a belief? To them, a believer in such things is in precisely the same position as those ‘half brained religious folk’ you so loftily condemn. And before you leap in to tell me that, actually, there’s plenty of evidence, please bear in mind that any ‘half brained’ religious person would claim exactly the same thing for the tenets of their own faith. The evidence is all they need - but it probably wouldn’t be enough to convince anyone who doesn’t already believe.
For myself, I believe that the line between UFOs, ‘aliens’ and, yes, ‘angels’ is far more blurred than you seem to think; I believe their true nature is far stranger than just ‘people from other planets’.
“Science has contradicted all religions many times”
No it hasn’t. That’s a ridiculously simplistic assertion. You don’t take into account the fact that the word ‘religion’ doesn’t represent a single belief system, but a massive range of varied beliefs and traditions. Most of which, I’d venture to suggest, cannot be disproved logically, because they make no scientifically testable claims. Sure, we can say that the Earth wasn’t created in six days four thousand years ago so (discounting ad hoc claims that it was ‘made to look old’) that would represent the disproof of one claim of one religion. But it ties in nicely with the key point of my argument here: science can’t prove that all religions are wrong; Iraq couldn’t prove it had no WMDs; and the US Government can’t prove it doesn’t have information about aliens.
“they may just say it was a unknown though, but hardly anyone would be interested in that description”
No, they wouldn’t. Because, as you indicated with your mention of EastEnders and Big Brother, people like to go for the simple, the easy and the exciting. Mere honesty - such as “we don’t really know what it was” - tends to be a bit dull by comparison.
I have been watching Dogran and John. Interesting the views that is seen from both sides and in the middle. Is the truth in the middle ? Is is the same as being warm of being cold ? People from both sides are in the defense of what they belief in. So let me say this: Belief if UFO’s is like a Religion.
Why belief in UFO’s is like a Religion and I am going to explain this here why and how.
As philosophies go science and religion are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. That spectrum is a broad range of related objects or values or qualities or ideas or activities. They arrive at certain “truths” in different ways. If you repeat certain things long enough in your mind you will eventually believe what you want to believe. Religious information is arrived by a revelational method from a higher source whether directly from a Deity or through some earthly intermediaries (prophets, saints etc.). Science on the other hand gathers physical facts/objects and postulates theories based on observation and experiments with these “physical facts/objects”. This explanation is not trying to decide which philosophy is better and certainly does not intentionally disrespect anybodies religious viewpoints. Let’s face it, religions arrive at their conclusions differently than science. Faith plays the most important part. Faith plays no part in scientific conclusions other than antidotal capacities. As philosophies go, science is at the highest level when requiring proof. Proof is only man decided by the laws they write down in textbook declarations. Religions require little proof since faith is the driving force to believe in something or not. Where do UFO “enthusiasts” stand? They claim that aliens from distant stars and planets are facts and not based on any faith. Their whole argument is scientifically based. Let’s see what the scientific highest level of proof gets you.
RELIGION viewpoint
1. PROVING GOD/GODS/SPIRITS/SPIRITUAL WORLD - While a lot of religious documentation and history exists to demonstrate the existence of deities, most religious people would agree that belief in miracles on both a personal and non-personal level would be the best indication of proof. A good example is when the virgin Mary was alleged to have appeared before approx. 70,000 people in Fatima, Portugal in 1917. About half the people there claimed to have seen a miracle and the other half didn’t. Physical facts are not necessary to prove the spiritual world. Faith is. This faith is the way that religious people use to “prove” that God/gods exist. The idea that the God/gods in question don’t show up in an unambiguous way is not important because faith is the most important
SCIENCE viewpoint
1. PROVING GOD/GODS/SPIRITS/SPIRITUAL WORLD - In science, it is very simple to prove if God/gods exist. God or gods simply have to show up and demonstrate their abilities as a deity or deities. The ability to manipulate physical things in unusual ways is necessary to prove that God/gods exist. God or gods can then demonstrate their abilities as laid out in many religious documents as a deity or deities.
UFOISM viewpoint
1. PROVING ALIENS & UFOs For the average UFO enthusiast aliens don’t have to show up to exist. Merely accepting the multitude of press reports and literature generated by the UFO community is enough proof that UFOs exist. The fact that the aliens in question don’t show up, is because of a government conspiracy. This is the central tenant in the UFO enthusiast argument.
RELIGION viewpoint
2. MIRACLES AND SPIRITUAL EVENTS/SIGHTINGS - Human testimony to that miracle or this event is good enough evidence and proof for the existence of the spiritual world. Sightings of Miracles are not questioned and in most religions are wholly accepted.
SCIENCE viewpoint
2. MIRACLES AND SPIRITUAL EVENTS/SIGHTINGS - Human testimonials is considered the worst kind of evidence there is. The big problem being whether any individual is qualified enough to observe the events in question in an objective or rational manner. Unusual sightings of any strange events must be observed by qualified individuals and then subjected to a peer revue process.
UFOISM viewpoint
2. ALIEN AND UFO SIGHTINGS - Human testimony to alien events by anybody from the general population is good enough to “prove” that aliens exist. Unusual sightings of any strange events are observed by anybody who is awake and not intoxicated and accepted verbatim.
RELIGION viewpoint
3. RESEARCH - There are thousands of deities being worshipped all over the world but no research is being done to determined which is the real Gods/gods. It depends on what faith you were born into.
SCIENCE viewpoint
3. RESEARCH - Research cannot be done on something that physically never shows up or is never seen anywhere so they can be measured and observed in some way.
UFOISM viewpoint
3. RESEARCH - No research being done to scientifically distinguish or categorize different aliens except in a very unorganized manner. There are countless different species of aliens from countless different star systems. Nobody among UFO enthusiasts is encouraged to speak out to criticize against any of the promoters of specific type aliens, rather we are all encouraged to believe in all of them.
RELIGION viewpoint
4. INDISPUTABLE FACTS - Most religions around the world all have their “indisputable” facts and whether these are true or not simply depends on an individuals beliefs.
SCIENCE viewpoint
4. INDISPUTABLE FACTS - Depends on the discipline. The physical sciences may end up having theories that last hundreds of years while biological facts (like fossil remains) can become facts much quicker.
UFOISM viewpoint
4. INDISPUTABLE FACTS - Debunked facts continue to have a life of their own even when they have been scientifically proven to be without merit. The scientifically debunked fact is simply ignored and never mentioned.
RELIGION viewpoint
5. PEER REVUE METHODOLOGY - No peer revue is required but central tenants etc. are simply revealed from a person at the top of the hierarchy or left up to religious people to decide.
SCIENCE viewpoint
5. PEER REVUE METHODOLOGY - Peer revue is a mainstay of science and is one of the main determinants of a procedure that eventually can decide what is true and what isn’t.
UFOISM viewpoint
5. PEER REVUE METHODOLOGY - There is no accepted method of peer revue within the vast majority of the UFO/alien community. Peer revue is not even encouraged.
RELIGION viewpoint
6. CRITICISM AND DEBATE - No criticism or debate is encouraged for the main stipulates and tenants. Only minor events are debated. For example the Catholic Church would never look into whether Jesus Christ is a God or not even though historically there are some issues as to whether this is the case
SCIENCE viewpoint
6. CRITICISM AND DEBATE - Criticism and debate is always encouraged and can seem to go on forever even for theories that have been around for centuries.
UFOISM viewpoint
6. CRITICISM AND DEBATE - The only criticism and debate comes from non-believers of UFO/alien sightings. Within the UFO/alien believer community there is no criticism or debate across boundaries.
In conclusions - UFOISM
Which methods do our UFO enthusiasts use to “prove” the existence of alien beings from distant planets. So far only human testimonials have been used for proof. Not a single solitary artifact has ever been demonstrated to exist in either an independent or university lab. This is despite the fact that thousands and thousands (maybe even in some thoughts “millions”) of aliens are claimed to have visited Earth and flown through radar equipped airspace. The aliens are so neat and clever they never even seem to leave anything of their garbage behind! Just question yourself about this a few times. The biggest reason UFO enthusiasts use to demonstrate the lack of observable physical objects (as opposed to human testimonials) is the government conspiracy and reptilian cleverness in cloaking themselves, out of human ability to discern them of who they really are. According to them anybody who doesn’t believe in aliens is naďve considering all this testimonial evidence and the lack of physical evidence is simply because the government is covering it up…and the superior reptilian ability to deceive everyone and their super intelligent sweeping up ability behind their @sses. Isn’t it ?
I apologize for my opening errors in grammar of the first paragraph. Here is the revised and corrected first paragraph version.
“I have been watching Dogran and John. Interesting the views that is seen here from both sides and in the middle. Is the truth in the middle here to be found ? Or… Is it the same as being warm or being cold ? People from both sides are in defense of what they believe in. So let me say this: “Belief in UFO’s is like a Religion.”"
This time I had kitchen foil on my head to protect myself from interference of imagined Alien brainwave highjacking (watching a TV documentary and writing blog multitasking is not advisable in this case as you see) before I started to write. I should have known better, before I write on a UFO/Alien blog. hehehe.
Hypotheses, looking at this philosophically, and conspiracy theories are obsolete at this point. The sighting numbers have grown enormously over this decade. The amount of credible witnesses coming forth have grown, and have come together as various organizations to push disclosure. They sense that ET/aliens are saying: “Whether you want it or not, we are introducing our selves. Share your stories.” I believe they are forcing the hand of governments to this objective using the military, and these credible witnesses as a vice to this end. They are giving society on earth a chance to get used to the idea. And one day we will wake up to this new reality. I think we should worry about the reasons why they want this relationship. There is where the theories should begin. And when I research those theories, that is where this subject gets weird. I think it is important to draw the line on this subject between science and the paranormal. Be skeptical yes, but be smart about it. Let’s tackle this issue in a scientific way, and in a way that shows that we are worried about national/global security. That is the angle we should be presenting it to the governments of the world. The time for those folks who experience this phenomenon dealing with ridicule and debunking should come to an end. It is time for some form of closure.
Dogran said “Are you trying to suggest that these ‘encounters’ (whatever they were) were unknown to Americans until the European governments released their information recently?”
I don’t know what exactly the American government is hiding away in cellars, but they do have records hidden away at least to the same extent that the British have released. It would be useful to release these documents to the public. I have no idea what this will tell us, but it’s much better than saying nothing.
“And who’s to say that would be a bad thing? Some, who take a step back and look at what we’ve done and continue to do, would say it badly needs changing.”
Yes I agree, I didn’t mean to imply that that would be a bad thing. On the contrary I would welcome this.
“And don’t you think a strict sceptic could say just the same thing about someone who believes in aliens - and aliens visiting Earth, no less - when there is absolutely no conclusive evidence to support such a belief?”
This is partially true, but one piece of statistical evidence does not completely agree. This is that on average those people that believe in god are usually below average intelligence, and those who believe in aliens are above average intelligence.
“For myself, I believe that the line between UFOs, ‘aliens’ and, yes, ‘angels’ is far more blurred than you seem to think; I believe their true nature is far stranger than just ‘people from other planets’.”
The truth will always be stranger than fiction. I also doubt that any conspiracy theory is anywhere near close to the truth.
“No it hasn’t. That’s a ridiculously simplistic assertion. You don’t take into account the fact that the word ‘religion’ doesn’t represent a single belief system, but a massive range of varied beliefs and traditions.”
OK I’m no expert in religions, I should have said science has contradicted christianity.
“Most of which, I’d venture to suggest, cannot be disproved logically, because they make no scientifically testable claims.”
Of course, therefore many wild assumptions in the majority of religions have been proven incorrect, which does not help their credibility for the rest of their claims.
“science can’t prove that all religions are wrong; Iraq couldn’t prove it had no WMDs; and the US Government can’t prove it doesn’t have information about aliens.”
No but you can say with some certainty that they are wrong due to their record of falsifying facts previously. I’ve heard that some of these WMDs were transferred across the border to Iran in 2003 on the back of lorries from direct eyewitness reports. Of course anything is possible; they could be buried in the desert or just as likely never existed. To me these WMDs are irrelevant, and we finished off a job which should have been done 10 years earlier.
Maybe the government can’t prove they have no information about aliens, but they can be more forthright about what information they do have about incidents which have been investigated. Or are you going to tell me that 200 of these incidents are reported to the MoD in the UK every year, but none are reported in the US? And these are ufo related, not necessarily alien related. Or does the American government actually disclose ufo related documents? And the MoD UK disclosed documents are probably the tip of the iceberg in terms of what they are going to release in 2009.
It’s not proof of aliens, it’s more just tell us what you know that would be more suitable to ask for. If some people wish to make more conspiracy theories out of any lack of information provided - let them. We don’t have to believe in them do we.
“No, they wouldn’t. Because, as you indicated with your mention of EastEnders and Big Brother, people like to go for the simple, the easy and the exciting.”
I believe I was referring to sceptics here, and so they wouldn’t necessarily shout “alien, alien”, or if they did they would later confirm they didn’t know what it was. I don’t know how many people would actually be that honest; maybe only a few, maybe even up to a half. But a lot of people I know would be sceptical of what they witnessed, even if they got excited about it originally, but then again maybe I just mix with intelligent people.
KJ said “People from both sides are in defense of what they believe in. So let me say this: “Belief in UFO’s is like a Religion.””"
It is from particular viewpoints such as the non-believer or not-witnessed. But even ufo witnesses can be sceptics, can those who have religious visions be called sceptical?
But yes belief in either can be regarded as exactly the same due to lack of proof.
Or rather what I meant was belief in aliens or god are the same due to lack of proof, but to believe in ufos which are ambigious does not fall into the same category. This is because they could be new government technology developed in Area 51 like the stealth planes were responsible for many sightings in the 80’s. These type of sightings won’t always be ufos, but technically for the moment they can be.
Pete said:
“Hypotheses, looking at this philosophically, and conspiracy theories are obsolete at this point. The sighting numbers have grown enormously over this decade.”
So has the popularity of the UFO phenomenon. It’s always possible these two trends are linked. Again, sightings and anecdotal claims don’t constitute objective evidence, and therefore it’s unwise to hold forth about what’s obsolete and what’s not. The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (for such it still is) is no closer to being proved than it was ten or twenty years ago.
“They sense that ET/aliens are saying: “Whether you want it or not, we are introducing our selves. Share your stories.””
A sceptic might well ask why, if the ‘aliens’ wish to introduce themselves, they don’t simply do so. As KJ said in his/her rather excellent post above:
“In science, it is very simple to prove if God/gods exist. God or gods simply have to show up and demonstrate their abilities as a deity or deities.”
The same could be said of the aliens. Yet they don’t seem to want to ‘prove’ themselves: they seem to want to keep us guessing. Odd behaviour for the ‘aliens’ so many assume them to be; but behaviour perfectly consistent with that of the entities we’ve have been encountering for thousands of years, and about which I suspect the US Government knows no more than the rest of us.
Further from KJ:
“For the average UFO enthusiast aliens don’t have to show up to exist. Merely accepting the multitude of press reports and literature generated by the UFO community is enough proof that UFOs exist. The fact that the aliens in question don’t show up, is because of a government conspiracy.”
In many cases, the enthusiast knows what they want the truth to be, and they’ll perceive ‘evidence’ - any evidence - in a way that supports that preferred model.
“Let’s tackle this issue in a scientific way”
This would be a fine sentiment, if there was any reason to suppose that the ‘UFOs’ we encounter are subject to our rather limited scientific methods.
As I said, you don’t need to try to convince me of the reality of UFOs: I’m already quite satisfied that they’re real. I just don’t think they’re anything so simplistic as visitors from other planets.
John said:
“It would be useful to release these documents to the public. I have no idea what this will tell us, but it’s much better than saying nothing.”
I’m not so sure. As you say, you (we) have no idea what if any documents they might have to release; so the question remains: what if there are none; or the documents they release don’t correspond to our predetermined ideas? Do we continue to make demands, bearing in mind that, as I said, they couldn’t logically prove that they don’t have something?
“one piece of statistical evidence does not completely agree. This is that on average those people that believe in god are usually below average intelligence, and those who believe in aliens are above average intelligence.”
Unfortunately for your prejudice, that particular statistic has no basis in reality, and is merely a worn-out propaganda statement tossed into any theist/atheist argument along with numerous other old favourites. It would be wrong for a believer in Earth-visiting aliens to hold him- or herself superior to the religious, since both belief systems are based on similar standards of ‘evidence’. The intelligent in both groups will be those who recognise the limitations of their belief systems.
“The truth will always be stranger than fiction. I also doubt that any conspiracy theory is anywhere near close to the truth.”
I agree. Which is why I tend to question conspiracy theories that imply they have it all wrapped up. The ‘extraterrestrial cover-up’ does precisely that.
“OK I’m no expert in religions, I should have said science has contradicted christianity.”
That would have been better; but it would still have been wrong. The basic tenets of Christianity - as opposed to fundamentalist, Bible-literalist Christianity - don’t lend themselves to scientific examination. A man carried on a ministry and was said to have performed miracles; his followers believe that he came to Earth to offer redemption from sin. Since all directly involved are long gone, and no unadulterated written sources remain, nothing there can be tested. Therefore, nothing there can be proved or disproved. Assumptions can be made, but nothing more.
“Of course, therefore many wild assumptions in the majority of religions have been proven incorrect, which does not help their credibility for the rest of their claims.”
And again, precisely the same criticism could be levelled at those who adhere to the ‘extraterrestrial cover-up’ conspiracy theory.
“To me these WMDs are irrelevant, and we finished off a job which should have been done 10 years earlier.”
You see the practised ease with which you brush off this critical issue? But the point there was not to assess whether or not it was right to attack Iraq. The point was that once the demand had been made that Iraq prove it had no such weapons, the outcome was inevitable: there was no logical way for Iraq to comply with the demands. Similarly, if the government has UFO information then so be it - but if it doesn’t, there is no logical way it could prove it to those who have decided it does.
“It’s not proof of aliens, it’s more just tell us what you know that would be more suitable to ask for.”
But my question remains: at what point would you be satisfied with what they disclose? At what point would you be willing to say, “I believe them when they say they have nothing more”?
There have been artifacts. Unfortunately they’re hidden from the puplic.
What is the point of hiding alien artifacts ? With one artifact exposed, tested and being put forward as “evidence” would help the UFOlogists to immediate status of acceptance in their theories and observations. Until now there is no evidence regarding in any way or form. So I dispute the fact that there are alien artifacts.
Every civilization left artifacts behind and are exhibited, whether this was from the Cro-Magnons, Egyptians, Romans, Incans, Mayan, or Aztecs, etc. Just to name a few civilizations.
John said:
“Of course, therefore many wild assumptions in the majority of religions have been proven incorrect, which does not help their credibility for the rest of their claims.”
If you want to believe that religions are incorrect, so also I have a right to say that conspiracy theories and aliens/ET’s are incorrect theories. They don’t show up just the same and do not teach us their language and ways of technology of so called ET’s or Aliens. Of-course anyone can make the assumption and theories in that what we know now is from Aliens or ET’s. If we would repeat this long enough to ourselves, like we have done with many other things, there is likely a group of people who will pipe the same tune at some point for the convenience of it to their liking. I feel that since they have passed the critical state of being rational and drift away on something that has not contributed anything to our society then countless data banks of so called observations. They just accept it as they progress in their ideas and opinions and book writing. This is just acceptable in a world where there is freedom of speech and no-one takes real responsibility of what UFOism now actually really is.
Almost everything what we learn at school, college and universities is about breakthroughs in scientific testings and trials. In which I have no real objections besides what we really doing with it whether good or evil. Hence it is written down in textbooks and handed down through many generations of humans as “truths” established by human beings. I have in earlier posts disputed this as since I believe that all scientific breakthroughs are coming out of the spiritual realm into the natural. This has been predicted thousands of years ago that this would happen and this is happening still up to this day. Most of all what we see is a variation on a theme whether improved, altered, increased in speed, etc. There are rarely breakthroughs that are unique and really special. Most scientific proof is based upon energy, water, fire, wind, stone, wood and earth and the intrinsic components in the earth like iron, oil, gold, aluminum, etc. or extractions out of them. All things we know who are there because of discovery and application of it. Our environment is completely built out of it, including recycling of the former.
It is evident that scientific technology does not teach us on how to deal with each other, physically, emotionally and mentally. Technology has proven that a child that watches a computer-screen for 8-16 hours a day, has totally lost the ability to interact in society and reality. This is on the increase as never before in time. This has become a worse and worse phenomena in the normal way of life what used to be without technological advances. I personally believe the present state of our world conditions are to blame to all these technological advances in where we have lost the values of family life, interaction with our peers, issues of expressing love, emotions, the control of them and understanding.
We can clearly see what the advances have caused: Chaos, fear, uncontrollable problems, destruction, pollution, misunderstandings, war, third world starvation on a scale of epic proportions, disturbances in nature and stability etc.
The question here is, would any “Alien” that sees such problems that concur, not have compassion to help us if they would exist ? History has shown that during times of war, epidemics, floods, disasters etc. Never there was personal interaction of a multitude of Alien presence visible in our world. Nor were there solutions offered from out of space to take direction in. Only in the psychic area we see the weirdo messages offered through means of mass media and other ways. All what we truly see is: World Food Program, FED, City of London, United Nations, World Bank, Wall Street, Red Cross, International Monetary Fund, etc. etc. These are all manmade organizations who came into life when there were and are needs in the entire world. Any smart person can come up with such and idea. No need for an “Alien” to instruct us into that, nor excuse for saying for an “Alien” “they can do it all by themselves, they don’t need us or our intervention”, we just “hang around and observe or watch”". Pretty boring I would say if I was an “alien”. Speculation that this will happen in the future is just futile and is still speculation whatever way you look at it.
Stories that go round that if “Aliens” would make themselves known, this would be against their “convictions” and “standards”. How do we know that that are their “convictions” and “standards”. Where is it written in marble ? This is absurd and illogical and downright an excuse of making it all mystical, sinister and very much so plausible. Humans love science fiction. They thrive on it. Fiction means faking it. A literary work based on the imagination and not necessarily on facts.
All that we continuously see is crop circles, shaky cameras, hazy pictures, numerous reports to no end, and the like.
Why would we have to knock at the Government door to ask them to reveal their, crop circles, shaky cameras, hazy pictures and numerous reports ? Does it mean the more of it, the more credible it all is ? I rather believe that the government is using it more for sinister purposes to instill fear, confusion and doubts in peoples minds and society we are living in, so they can extract more taxes and stealth taxes from us. It is really simple like that. Because after all, that is what in a country makes the dice roll and call out the numbers as they have fallen as such.
Test ! I can’t post my post ?????
I’m sorry, but any hidden information is detrimetal to be kept hidden that not, so your entire point is worthless until we examine this definite hidden information, and then we can determine whether further information is to be available.
it said “You see the practised ease with which you brush off this critical issue? But the point there was not to assess whether or not it was right to attack Iraq.
Go read the history books and see if you actually think it was right to attack Iraq, or rather call is defense against neighbours rather than offensive you idiot. And no history does go back longer than 10 years, or even 50 years. And yes the US did back Iraq, but it does not mean they backed them even if the leader turned against his own people.
“The point was that once the demand had been made that Iraq prove it had no such weapons, the outcome was inevitable: there was no logical way for Iraq to comply with the demands.”
This has nothing to do with reality, Saddam Hussein had to be removed, that is all what was required. You are simple if you care about WMDs, and obviously Bush and Blair had to appeal to people like you.
“Similarly, if the government has UFO information then so be it - but if it doesn’t, there is no logical way it could prove it to those who have decided it does.”
I don’t disagree with that, but we have the right to any knowledge it does have, and it does have knowledge beyond what has been given to the public. It is irrelevant whether this answers consipiracy theoeries or not?
And the rest of your talk dogran is boring lol.
dogran is boring and talks in circles. I think he is having a time coming to terms with this subject. LOL
Lets be honest here. The United States government will NEVER release any information on the reality of UFO’s. Even if an alien spaceship landed on the White House lawn, they still would not release top secret material from years past. It’s not going to happen.
“There have been artifacts. Unfortunately they’re hidden from the puplic.”
As a famous movie pirate once said: “No survivors? Then where do the stories come from, I wonder?”
Your assertion above sums up the conspiracy enthusiasts’ position quite well: there is no evidence for what they believe; but they take the lack of evidence as evidence in itself. This is much the same as the Bible literalists’ view that the Bible must be true because the Bible says it is, and no more proof is required.
To anyone else, a claim that evidence exists but is unavailable tells us nothing. It may be true, or it may not. We cannot know, and therefore the existence of the evidence - and whatever it’s supposed to prove - remains a matter of faith.
“Go read the history books and see if you actually think it was right to attack Iraq, or rather call is defense against neighbours rather than offensive you idiot”
Again, the question of whether or not it was right to attack Iraq is irrelevant here. The point is that it was logically impossible for Iraq to comply with the demand made: that it prove it had no Weapons of Mass Destruction. Again, you cannot prove that you don’t have something. That’s an important concept here because it parallels the demands being made of the US Government: if they do not have any information, they could not prove it to those who believe they do.
Incidentally, take care: insults are a sign that you don’t have the courage of your convictions.
John:
“And the rest of your talk dogran is boring lol.”
Pete:
“dogran is boring and talks in circles. I think he is having a time coming to terms with this subject. LOL”
Whether I’m boring or not is really of no consequence: the logical problems remain, and are unavoidable, however exciting any of us might be. As for ‘coming to terms’ with the subject, I’ve already explained that you don’t need to convince me that UFOs exist. As I said, I just think the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis is too simplistic.
You do both seem to be having trouble with the single point I’ve been making: that you can’t prove you don’t have something. The issue here is whether those demanding disclosure are actually interested in truth, or simply seek vindication and kudos for themselves. Someone seeking truth would be prepared for all possibilities - yet you reject one that doesn’t correspond to your preconceptions. If I’m talking in circles, it’s because I’m having to explain the same concept over and over, because you seem unable to grasp it. Your suspiciously synchronised (and similar) joint surrender here says more than enough.
I agree with, Dogran. In any post on here they have problem to prove something that they don’t have. Preconceptions in supporters of science are scientific facts and textbooks. Facts are only subscribed by a group of people who think the same. Blue must be blue, because the scientists or a group of people have established that. What if they were confronted with a Tower of Babel Syndrome, would they still say blue is blue ? Or would they all establish their own little corner and start from there as a civilization and then fight each other with it. Anything can be proven until there is a anti-proof taking the upper-hand. Humankind is not very flexible in making chaos in the order that they have created. Just watch what is unfolding in the world right now. What they once created as a fact or order to live by is now undone by factors that are uncontrollable and insecure. Confusion and insecurity is rampant and lurks from every corner. The facts don’t seem to be working so well anymore. The foundations of this world are shaken as never before, by a force that is unexplainable, yet not unknown. Will they ever see that what is shakable will be shaken until the unshakable will be left over ? As the chaff from the wheat. What was established from the beginning of the foundations of this world will remain. When they were all a child, they caught a fleeting glimpse. Out of the corner of their eye. They turned to look but it was gone. They cannot put their finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. All that is left is fear and facts that don’t function.
The question here is: When all the structures and scaffolding is taken away….. what foundation will they stand upon ? On facts that are not the facts they thought they were and could be relied or taken recourse upon and that the fabric of their environment has been carefully spun as a spiderweb and has taken all their flexibility to relate and rationalize to………
lol.
dogran said “You do both seem to be having trouble with the single point I’ve been making: that you can’t prove you don’t have something.”
The problem with you is that don’t understand that the US government does have something to release, but chooses not to. That is beyond doubt. I think the philosophical approach of what this may be is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to deciding whether to ask or not to ask.
“Whether I’m boring or not is really of no consequence:”
You’re trying to convince people that we shouldn’t bother asking Obama to release any ufo documents. Try and be more convincing otherwise your repetitive words will not have any effect.
“the logical problems remain, and are unavoidable, however exciting any of us might be. As for ‘coming to terms’ with the subject, I’ve already explained that you don’t need to convince me that UFOs exist. As I said, I just think the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis is too simplistic.”
Then what is the problem with asking for more government documents to be disclosed… Who is asking you to jump on the ET bandwagon? I’m not for sure. The one point you keep making has been understood in the first 5 seconds of reading your first post, and I had already thought of that already! Stop making out you’re so much cleverer than anyone else and that you are the only one seeing the obvious.
“You do both seem to be having trouble with the single point I’ve been making: that you can’t prove you don’t have something.”
I have no trouble understanding this point, the only misunderstanding is what you are suggesting happens instead. Are we to just forget it and not bother asking for any information from the government at all, when people have the right to demand answers whatever they are.
“The issue here is whether those demanding disclosure are actually interested in truth, or simply seek vindication and kudos for themselves.”
Again you can’t bear the whole world’s wishes on your shoulders so don’t bother. Let them believe whatever they want. At least those who are interested in the truth will have some form of government disclosure even if it just states that they don’t know what happened it’s better than saying we don’t think anything did happen, which is a contradiction to what everyone else is saying.
“Someone seeking truth would be prepared for all possibilities - yet you reject one that doesn’t correspond to your preconceptions. If I’m talking in circles, it’s because I’m having to explain the same concept over and over, because you seem unable to grasp it.”
You think I’m not grasping it, but it’s your lack of understanding my point that makes you come to that silly conclusion. Why is asking for information having preconceptions? We have had released government documents thru’ FOI showing that if you ask you get something at least. You’re not going in circles, you’re just digging yourself a big hole to escape reality by wishing to just ignore all calls for government disclosure. Although I have had to reply to exactly this same point like around a dozen times, and even 4-5 times in one post alone, which means you can’t blame anyone for saying you’re going round and round in circles.
“Your suspiciously synchronised (and similar) joint surrender here says more than enough. ”
What are you talking about?! Please talk sense man. The other guy is saying there’s evidence, I did not. And I thought your Iraq analogy was inappropriate for many reasons, only one being that war was inevitable regardless of WMDs or not. I know the basic analogy of Iraq not being able to disprove WMDs existence sufficiently does apply, but as a whole picture it suffers greatly. It’s your incorrect preconceptions that only you understand this concept that is causing you to repeat it over and over again, and misinterpretating any point I have made.
Bring something new to the table next time, and rather than just assuming I don’t understand you, maybe you will realise I’m already a few pages ahead of you.
“Again, you cannot prove that you don’t have something. That’s an important concept here because it parallels the demands being made of the US Government: if they do not have any information, they could not prove it to those who believe they do.”
It has highly likely that there are unreleased ufo documents due to the large amount already released. Anyway how many times do you need to be told that just because a few tin-foil hat people will shout conspiracy at any released reports, it does not mean we keep these files locked up forever. Now let me explain where your Iraq WMD analogy does not quite work, and maybe you will learn something here. There has not been multiple official records released about Saddam Hussein’s WMD productions in the 1990s. We found WMDs from previous collections prior to the 90’s, but these are not what we supposedly went to war over. All intelligence on 1990’s produced WMDs was based on assumptions and was not released to the public in its true accurate form, except as exaggerated documents. In contrast the US government has released many ufo documents some of them blanked out but this does confirm ufos were investigated & confirmed to exist to a certain extent. These blanks have been covered up by statements saying that they have nothing to release, which is obviously untrue. Now the official response is that no investigation by the US Air Force continued after Project Blue book. In Britain the MoD has produced reports from after this time and still keeps new records in 2008, and yet the US does not investigate similarly? If we say they have no information to release, that is one wild assumption.
“insults are a sign that you don’t have the courage of your convictions.”
Or maybe the insult is the product of your failure to put any real point across so far. Except that we shouldn’t ask the government for any ufo information. At least please tell us what we should do instead to gain any substancial information about ufo reports in the USA to the same degree as the MoD reports in the UK. If someone calls you boring and an idiot, consider that just maybe they are right.
KJ said “I agree with, Dogran. In any post on here they have problem to prove something that they don’t have.”
I would agree if we were to ask for evidence of aliens from the government, but it’s appropriate to assume they have unreleased information on ufo reports. I would call this a tiny assumption, and much less than assuming they have nothing to tell us. We know the government does cover up for reasons of national security, eg. Project Mogul at Roswell, Area 51, stealth technology. The fact that documents have previously been released on ufos which would not have been released had the Freedom of Information Act not been instated by those who were curious. This all makes it highly likely that more documents have yet to be released for modern day investigations at the very least. Sometimes assumptions if made logically make absolute sense, such as assuming you will survive beyond next week and therefore making plans beyond that date. You cannot prove you will be alive then, but you still assume that you will be. There may have been those at the time who made the assumptions Iraq was still continuing to produce WMDs that thought it was a logical assumption. It is true that any assumption even if appearing logical could be incorrect. But disagreeing on this does not actually make one particular side wrong until we know for sure whether the assumption was correct or not. Although we shouldn’t dictate which seemingly logical assumptions we should make especially if the majority thinks this assumption has to be made, which is the case for ufo government documents here.
“Or would they all establish their own little corner and start from there as a civilization and then fight each other with it. ”
In the civilised world we can have disagreements without literally fighting over it. Many Mathematical geniuses and Physicists, including Einstein were told they were wrong. There’s nothing wrong with someone proving someone else is wrong. And searching for answers is better than not searching.
“Anything can be proven until there is a anti-proof taking the upper-hand.”
No, there’s illogical assumptions and logical assumptions. Science allows logical assumptions to a certain extent, and even different Physicists disagree with various assumptions being made for string theory and multiverse theory. Hopefully some of these can be confirmed experimentally soon and get rid of any possible need of a creator to explain why the universal constants make the universe habitable for us.
John said:
“Hopefully some of these can be confirmed experimentally soon and get rid of any possible need of a creator to explain why the universal constants make the universe habitable for us.”
In any occasion or situation in the application of creativity, it is imperative and compulsory that you need a “creator”. In order to be that special creator, suffice to say “get your own dirt out of nowhere, don’t use or borrow what already is there before”.
hehehehe.
Would you be able to explain why your god made other universes in the multiverse inhospitable to life? Or maybe you would then realise the why’s aren’t actually the important questions and instead the how’s, what’s and the when’s are what give us any real answers.
John said:
“The problem with you is that don’t understand that the US government does have something to release, but chooses not to. That is beyond doubt.”
“I think the philosophical approach of what this may be is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to deciding whether to ask or not to ask.”
Ask, by all means. My point isn’t that you shouldn’t ask. As you said in response to KJ, it’s entirely appropriate to ask, and assuming that the Government has some unreleased information isn’t unreasonable. But there are things to bear in mind. First, what information do you expect, and would you be satisfied if the information released doesn’t conform to your expectations? Second, isn’t it true that certain agencies of a country’s administration must necessarily keep certain information secret, if only to prevent sensitive information falling into the hands of a rival state? The problem isn’t in the asking - it’s in the interpretation of any reply or non-reply.
“You’re trying to convince people that we shouldn’t bother asking Obama to release any ufo documents.”
Not at all. I’m trying to make you understand why he won’t.
“Again you can’t bear the whole world’s wishes on your shoulders so don’t bother. Let them believe whatever they want. At least those who are interested in the truth will have some form of government disclosure even if it just states that they don’t know what happened”
And you think the conspiracy lobby would accept that? You think they’d close down the X-Files and accept that the Government doesn’t have any guilty secret? I doubt it very much.
“Why is asking for information having preconceptions?”
In this case, because the question - particularly in the context of the ‘Million Fax Campaign’ - is driven by the presumption that the information is available. Again, that’s not a serious problem in itself - but it will colour your view of any response you receive or don’t receive.
“Although I have had to reply to exactly this same point like around a dozen times”
Point of order: you don’t have to do anything. You’ve already dismissed me as boring and repetitive once, and I was prepared to leave it at that. But you came back. Don’t imply you’re being made to do something you don’t want to do.
“And I thought your Iraq analogy was inappropriate for many reasons, only one being that war was inevitable regardless of WMDs or not. I know the basic analogy of Iraq not being able to disprove WMDs existence sufficiently does apply…”
And therefore the analogy was entirely appropriate.
“just because a few tin-foil hat people will shout conspiracy at any released reports, it does not mean we keep these files locked up forever.”
True - but that’s not what I’ve said. What I’ve said is that no matter what response the Government provides, or doesn’t provide, those people will continue to make accusations of conspiracy. If the Government says it doesn’t have anything, they’ll claim it does. If the Government admits it has some basic details, they’ll claim it has a detailed knowledge. The only response they’ll accept at face value will be “yes, there is a conspiracy, we’ve been working with the aliens for years”. And if that’s actually the case then there’s no sensible reason to imagine that the Government would suddenly admit it now, Obama or no Obama, unless by coincidence that was their plan all along.
Again, that’s not to say that those who suspect such a conspiracy shouldn’t campaign or make demands - if that’s their suspicion then they’re right, in a way, to do so. But they’re unlikely to succeed.
“In contrast the US government has released many ufo documents some of them blanked out but this does confirm ufos were investigated & confirmed to exist to a certain extent.”
But you’ll see from that that despite the release of these documents you’re not satisfied and want more. That’s my point: whatever they release, short of an admission of a full-on alien conspiracy, people will still demand more.
“In Britain the MoD has produced reports from after this time and still keeps new records in 2008, and yet the US does not investigate similarly? If we say they have no information to release, that is one wild assumption.”
Yes, it would be. But the record will show that I haven’t made that assumption: I’ve simply pointed out that the possibility would raise a problem with a campaign like this.
“Or maybe the insult is the product of your failure to put any real point across so far.”
No, it’s a sign that you were losing patience and getting angry. And that’s a sign that you feel threatened. I certainly don’t mean to make you feel threatened, and you’re not obliged to continue to respond if you don’t think there’s anything to be gained here.
“At least please tell us what we should do instead to gain any substancial information about ufo reports in the USA to the same degree as the MoD reports in the UK. If someone calls you boring and an idiot, consider that just maybe they are right.”
By all means ask. As I said, I’m not saying you shouldn’t. I’m saying that you should be aware of your motives in asking, of your preconceptions, and of the logical constraints the demand imposes.
I agree with Jay. But the research I am seeing looks like disclosure will probably come from one of the following countries: Japan, Brazil, Mexico, Russia, or France. The Japanese and Russia are besides themselves on this matter. Disclosure will come from credible people, i.e, Radar techs/superviosrs, retired military, retired politicians, folks who have worked for those involved in cover ups of UFO/ET, police officers, astronauts, and pilots. These folks have data that show unexplained phenomun. The US just wants us to ignore them. But for some reason the UFO/ET phenomun has escalated internamtionaly. Have you resarched secret UN meetings and the Vatican admitting the existence of alien beings? ABC’s Night Line, about two weeks ago, had a segment on disclouser in the precess. We are being bathed in the plausabilty of alien visitation/existance. Are we ready for it?
John said:
“Would you be able to explain why your god made other universes in the multiverse inhospitable to life? Or maybe you would then realise the why’s aren’t actually the important questions and instead the how’s, what’s and the when’s are what give us any real answers.”
When we are talking about Multiverses or Parallel Universes we know that this is a hypothetical situation. The assumption of multiple universes is not proven by de facto or by anyone. Multiverses have been assumed by philosophy, science fiction, physics, astronomy, cosmology, etc etc.
However on the area of spiritual issues, I am aware as well many others that share my convictions, that there are more demensions then the 3 we know and see. Which I could categorize under “Parallel worlds”. I believe in all that we see and experience is already in this Parallel World happening. Things that we see unfold in this natural world are affected by the “parallel world” and visa versa. We can clearly see the effects manifest right here and now. Perhaps Cause and Effect.
When we are talking about the asumption of more universes we cannot speculate any further then we have seen by telescopic discoveries like the Hubble Telescope for example. However we have not been to those area in person. What is seen by the naked eye or by amplification of a telescope might not be the reality what we perceive here on earth. We name things as we think they are seem fitting.
The establishment of such human “truths” again are being brought forward in a group of people that agrees equally this is the “name” for such a thing, object, part, issue or situation and generally accepted by the majority. The establishment of facts can easily be debunked by others if the majority is large enough to “prove” another hypothesis or counter facts. We would be arrogant if we know that all the facts are the facts as we say they are.
When it comes to universes, or even multiverses, it simply means that whatever a discoverer of an observation mentions to others and makes an agreement from now on, this is a fact or a law, it will be accepted by multiple vote.
There are already laws that are into place even before discovery like, day and night, gravity, decay, time, light, etc. etc.
A common feature of all multiverse levels is that the simplest and arguably most elegant theory involves parallel universes by default. (To describe something for the onlooker at large is making a static or dynamic system for others to hang up their syntheses and on where they can hang up their theses writings to present in society) To deny the existence of those universes, one needs to complicate the theory by adding experimentally unsupported processes and ad hoc postulates: finite space, wave function collapse and ontological asymmetry as some examples.
By description the multiverse scenario is more parsimonious than that of a single universe. This reflects an old insight from algorithmic information theory. The information conveyed by a set may be far less than the information conveyed by its individual elements or even observers of the phenomona or discoveries.
When I mention that science and ufoism is a religion, it proves out of the following directives. Science and Ufoism sort of worships the point of being able to grasp a certain point of view that is achieved or observed and put down as a fact by a group of people like minded. This is amplified by the so called “evidence” that is presented in the known forms we can see in books, internet, video’s and pictures.
For example: Additionally, possible worlds are a way of explaining probability. Probability is the likelihood or chance that something is the case or will happen. Theoretical Probability is used extensively in areas such as statistics, mathematics, science and philosophy to draw conclusions about the likelihood of potential events and the underlying mechanics of complex systems and observations. These are Hypothetical statements and the like, and some philosophers such as David Lewis believe that all possible worlds exist, and are just as real as the actual world. This is an assumption because they have never been there or interacted. Not only are persons spread out through worlds according to them, but they, like everything else, are quantized through time in any given world that supposedly exists. Time for them is a series of moments, and a person who exists at a moment exists there forever in four-dimensional space-time and might even transport themselves through this, (the suggestion would lean to perhaps “alien” life on other planets or desire thereof to exist) rather than being transformed continuously through the flow of time that is the here and now and being satisfied with it.
The fact that humans are on a constant quest of trying to destroy the issue of a Creator Designer is just as old as the world itselves.
The earliest known records describing the concept of a multiverse are found in ancient Hindu cosmology for example, in texts such as the Puranas. They expressed the idea of an infinite number of universes, each with its own gods, inhabitants and planets, and an infinite cycle of births, deaths, and rebirths of a universe, with each cycle lasting 8.4 billion years. The belief is too that the number of universes is infinite.
So nothing new here.
But what is now the Fabric of Reality ? I am aware that a lot of people are much less sympathetic to the non-scientific component, which provides rational reconstructions for traditional theological categories such as God, omniscience, omnipresence, benevolence, creation, and so on and the rejection of these facts.
However I have seen many biologists attest and declared that even in the smallest lifecell that exists under a microscope observation there is a permanent “signature”. Something so unique, that they can’t explain by reason and have to ascribe it to a higher power in existence. Or even past of as aliens created this or that. I do not perceive that mankind is so stupid that in all those years of investigation there is still not an answer that satisfies these observations and establishments. Still I would refer to my former post here regarding, SCIENCE viewpoint, RELIGION viewpoint and UFOISM viewpoint.
The question here is, who is the Author of these “signatures” and why are they there ? There is no need for these signatures to exist by any means, yet they are stamped with a sort of “ownership” or a creator.
Gravitational debates and other extreme forces fo discussion call for more durable substrates for human psychology. The brain is replaced by sturdy computational equivalents in virtual realities, protected from the Big Crunch and pushed in the final moments by unlimited computational cycles affording their posthuman residents to the subjective experience of immortality and the so called multiverses theory and unknown lifeforms on other planets. This is another suggestive and not proven in any way or form.
It seems to be very hard to accept that the search to extraterrestrial life is a waste of time, finances and efforts. Simply because the discoveries are not suffcient to evident these hypothetical syntheses. Even after perhaps 100 year discoveries. All that it has created is humongous data banks with information that is not relevant or useful for 99 percent of the world’s population.
What the worlds population need is, food, water, shelter, education, entertainment. It’s very simple. That humans want to seek this outside this world which is in a total mess at the moment is just escapism and trying to blame it to others instead of taking up responsibilities what really life pertains and is.
In this I have summed up 80 percent of the world population that struggles to make ends meet and sort out their problems. So yes, 1 Planet of trouble is more than enough to deal with. Imagine there would be many ?
“I agree with Jay. But the research I am seeing looks like disclosure will probably come from one of the following countries: Japan, Brazil, Mexico, Russia, or France. The Japanese and Russia are besides themselves on this matter.”
What precisely do you mean by “besides themselves”? And there’s another question: say Japan, or one of these other countries you mention, chooses to disclose what information it has available. And say, for argument’s sake, that for some reason that country has a great deal more information available than the USA does. And say that none of the information, from any country, reveals a conspiracy of the sort usually assumed (the said sinister men in smoky rooms colluding with the aliens). Will that satisfy you as to the US Government’s position?
“Disclosure will come from credible people, i.e, Radar techs/superviosrs, retired military, retired politicians, folks who have worked for those involved in cover ups of UFO/ET, police officers, astronauts, and pilots. These folks have data that show unexplained phenomun. The US just wants us to ignore them.”
It could be argued that ‘disclosure’, in a sense, has already come from such people. Most of the seriously well-known UFO reports have come from credible people: Lonnie Zamora was a Socorro police officer; Kenneth Arnold an experienced pilot; Jesse Marcel an Air Force officer; and so on. But again, the question is moot: that UFOs exist is undeniable - and as far as I know no government has sought to deny the existence of these things or the reality (at least subjectively speaking) of people’s experiences. The question is what they are and where they’re from. In fact, for our purposes even that isn’t the question: the question here is whether the US Government has the knowledge it’s commonly assumed to have, and how we’ll know one way or the other if they don’t directly admit the expected degree of knowledge.
“But for some reason the UFO/ET phenomun has escalated internamtionaly.”
It has indeed. Since the idea of visiting aliens really took off (so to speak) in 1947 following Kenneth Arnold’s sighting at Mount Rainier, the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis has gained a keen, in some cases fanatical, international following. But don’t forget the other factors that have developed at the same time: television has become a central feature in most people’s lives. TV programmes and sci-fi movies have become hugely popular. In recent years, the Internet has enabled anyone to publish their thoughts on a largely unregulated global platform. None of these are bad things, incidentally - but before you look suspiciously at the increased popularity of the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis, it’s worth asking yourself what interaction there may be between these developing factors: which is driving which?
Don’t forget that people have been seeing ‘UFOs’ and ‘aliens’ throughout human history: what are now ‘Greys’ were once angels and demons. Before angels and demons there were fairies and hobgoblins. They’re as real now as they were then - and I don’t doubt that they were real then. The truth is that these things have been with us for thousands of years; what form they take seems to depend to a great extent on who’s looking at them.
It’s not that they’re not real, as such - it’s just that they’re not as straightforward as the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis would suggest.
“Have you resarched secret UN meetings and the Vatican admitting the existence of alien beings?”
I’m sure the UN has any number of secret meetings. As I said earlier, it’s important to ask yourself whether you think it’s ever necessary or justifiable for a government to keep secrets. That would go as much for an international organisation like the UN as it would for any other administrative body. But that the meetings happened doesn’t tell us enough: we need to know what happened at the meetings, if UFOs were discussed. Governments might keep knowledge secret - but they also tend to want to keep ignorance secret too.
As for the Vatican, we should be clear: their comments on aliens were a clarification of Church doctrine, not an indication that they have secret information about aliens. The possibility of alien life has always been a matter of contention for Christians, since the Bible refers only to ‘the world’, and gives no indication that God created life elsewhere in the Universe (in fact it makes no real reference to there being a Universe at all). Some have interpreted that as meaning that it’s unchristian to believe in aliens; while others have argued that the Bible was intended for use on Earth only and that alien species would have been given their own scriptures - if they needed them. Father Funes, in his interview in May:
http://padrefunes.blogspot.com/2008/05/extraterrestrial-is-my-brother.html
…suggested the possibility that alien life might not suffer the sinful nature that humans have; that we may, as he put it, be the ‘lost sheep’ in the universal flock. Speculation, of course - but still, we should bear in mind that the Vatican hasn’t ‘admitted the existence of alien beings’. It’s stated that the existence of alien beings wouldn’t be contrary to Catholic belief.
After all these years of UFO phenomenom it would be extremely naive to believe that the government is coming clean on these issues.Enough reputable people have suggested cover up.It seems pretty obvious to me too.The military for one,have a lot to gain by keeping secret any alien technology..Check out Richard Hoagland on you tube..A former nasa employee, he has some interesting things to say.
dogran said “I’ve simply pointed out that the possibility would raise a problem with a campaign like this.”
Here’s where I can pointless out a simple analogy to explain why your concern isn’t really justified.
The anti-vaccination folk are always willing to accept that there’s some amount of harm that particular vaccinations are doing to their kids, yet no study finds any evidence.
Researchers state that we have found no links between this particular vaccination and autism, for example, whilst the anti-vaxxers rely on their anecdotal evidence which doesn’t prove anything. This leads them to believe there is some underlying danger to these vaccinations, and if they had the power to distribute funding, they would inform the researchers to keep on searching for this unapparent causes of illnesses produced by giving these vaccinations.
Of course the scientists just accept that after an appropriate level of study whereas a conclusion of non-link to autism is satisfactory to them until further evidence can be produced to warrant further research.
The anti-vax folk are not happy with that and don’t seem to understand what the actual purpose of scientific research is about. This does not lead to researchers constantly pandering to unacceptable demands, and in fact they laugh it off and call them loopy. I’ve read many medical articles on this subject and they show great distaste for those people, due to the harmful effects it can cause their kids not to give them these jabs.
Because of these idiots the researchers do not go about their practices any differently, although if they have made changes, this has probably been detrimental to other research that should have been carried out instead.
The same applies for real ufo researchers, if they hold back on requests to the government then this can be detrimental to their research & other important ufo research that is being carrying out. If we pander to the extreme conspiracy folk, then we jeopardise getting hold of any substancial disclosure. This is how showing concern for what is defined as crackpots will do, and should never happen except as a passing gesture. And to use this concern as the whole basis of a discussion shows a lack of knowledge of previously released documents and how credible ufo research operates. Or that your motives include showing more concern to the well-being of tin-foil hat people than credible ufo research. Most tin-foil hatters probably have such a low IQ or general intelligence level that they wouldn’t understand you if you bothered to take the time to explain why a sceptical approach is better. And yes ufo witnesses can still remain sceptical so that does not make all ufo witnesses believers. All believers will have to adapt to the truth, including both religious believers and those who believe in aliens.
“By all means ask. As I said, I’m not saying you shouldn’t. I’m saying that you should be aware of your motives in asking, of your preconceptions, and of the logical constraints the demand imposes. ”
OK so you agree with asking for some form of disclosure, yet you still are concerned for those particular extreme believer groups who may keep asking forever for more information. You should now see the comparison between the analogy and these pointless concerns.
The credible researchers (Dr. Clarke, Mufon etc) will always stick to the facts and therefore there is nothing to worry about in terms of these researchers having preconceptions. I’m not disagreeing with the content of your posts, just the intentions, especially where that leads and why you are going so strongly with this. On the other hand I could support you with trying to convince everyone to start with a sceptical approach, but you would not thank me for it.
In shorter terms - “Let the believers have preconceptions, the credible researchers who matter will use a scientific approach and produce hard facts. Don’t let the fears & preconceptions of believers cloud your vision and get you down. Sit back, enjoy the ride, disclosure is coming.”
I’m going to wrap up here, since if we haven’t managed to understand each other’s point of view by now I don’t think there’s much hope of doing so. I’ll finish by reiterating my main point and you can think about it or reject it as you will.
John said:
“OK so you agree with asking for some form of disclosure, yet you still are concerned for those particular extreme believer groups who may keep asking forever for more information.”
I agree that it’s fine to ask for disclosure. I’ve never said otherwise. It’s not that I’m ‘concerned’, as such - it’s that I doubt the likelihood of demands for disclosure being met. Such demands are driven by suspicion that the Government has information you’re not privy to. That, of course, is quite obviously true. The point I’ve made about Government secrecy stands: they will always know things that you, as a citizen, do not. They will always keep things from you, and your tax dollars will always be used to fund their secrecy. Some accept that as a necessary part of governance; others believe that it’s wrong, and that Government shouldn’t have secrets. But for a violent, aggressive and sectarian species like ours to live without secrets would be impractical. When we grow up a bit, then maybe we’ll be able to do away with all this childish nonsense, this endless mistrust, these petty nations; but for now secrets are more or less a government’s stock-in-trade.
So the Government keeps secrets from you. Secrets about the military, about technology, about policy; the list will be long for any administration. But of all these controversies-in-waiting, the most important for some is the secret knowledge the Government is presumed to have about the unexplained lights and shapes seen in the sky; sightings of strange entities; the reports of abductions and other encounters. These secrets are the focus: we know they have the information, we just need to get them to release it. Their other secrets pale in comparison.
It’s certainly possible they may have information about these things, because people report them. Whether or not any particular government continues to investigate them I couldn’t say. The UK Government has released at least some information about the phenomena - information basically amounting to “we noted the reports but we don’t know what happened”. Some who demand disclosure insist this would be enough; that they’d be satisfied with this answer from the USG. And maybe they would. If so, then that’s fine. But many wouldn’t, because many know that the Government knows more than that. In just the same way, many know that 9/11 was an inside job; that the British royal family murdered Diana, Princess of Wales; and that NASA faked the Moon landings.
There’s nothing wrong with asking for disclosure. It’s healthy. But the requests have to be made with an entirely open mind, if they’re to be satisfied. The Government might come back and say, “sure, we’ve been talking to aliens for years, we were going to tell you anyway, here’s why we had to keep it secret”. They might say, “we don’t know anything”. They might say, like the UKG, “we’ve had these reports but we don’t really know what these things are”. If you’re willing to accept any of these responses, or any others I might have missed, then you’re fine to be asking. If you’re looking only for the first response - the full-on alien conspiracy admission - then it’s very likely you’ll be disappointed.
“Sit back, enjoy the ride, disclosure is coming.”
Which, along with various other comments, strongly suggests that you’ve already settled on the response you’ll accept. That’s why our conversation has gone on so long.
Personally, I remain convinced that the sightings and encounters that people have had are entirely ‘real’ (whatever we suppose that to mean), but are not related to extraterrestrials. However, the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis has been of extraordinary value to the US Government and the military, serving as a smokescreen for their true secrets. So many people now believe so strongly that the Government has been hiding evidence of aliens that, even if they wanted to, the Government probably couldn’t make people believe that, in fact, all they were concealing was military technology or dodgy policy arrangements. Those things are of vital political importance, but they don’t make for exciting TV shows with lasers, so most people will prefer the aliens.
In the meantime, whatever the ‘aliens’ actually are that people genuinely do encounter, they’re no strangers to us, having been with us since the dawn of human history and quite likely long before. ‘Alien’ in the sense that we don’t understand them, and maybe never will; but as earthly as you or I.
Finally, Ray said:
“Check out Richard Hoagland on you tube..A former nasa employee, he has some interesting things to say.”
Interesting, yes. Food for thought, no doubt. But not necessarily reliable. Richard Hoagland has been hugely and comprehensively debunked. Most of his claims (also found on his site, The Enterprise Mission) don’t stand up even to a casual run through common sense, much less a detailed examination. Quite what leads a scientist down such dubious paths I’ve no idea, but it does seem to happen occasionally. Hoagland’s main trick is the so-called Face on Mars, always suspected and now proven to be nothing more than an interesting rock formation, which he nevertheless still claims is an artificial structure. Check out Phil Plait’s ‘Bad Astronomy’ site for detailed rebuttal of just about everything Hoagland has ever said.
Well, it’s been interesting talking to you chaps; that’s it for me. Best wishes to you.
Dogran, have you heard about the professional Astronomers who work in a planetarium in Austin, Texas, USA. They have been observing ufos every night since September and catch them on film. It is undeniable that some extraordinary events are taking place.
You say you aren’t too concerned, but you spend hours of your time trying to convince us that we should be careful in our approach asking for disclosure. Maybe you are more concerned than what you think.
Anyway best wishes to you as well.
John said: “And yes ufo witnesses can still remain sceptical so that does not make all ufo witnesses believers. All believers will have to adapt to the truth, including both religious believers and those who believe in aliens.”
If that would be correct than I would put forward the following Truth. Which is the Absolute Truth of all in all.
THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS ALL IN ALL:
GOD is with us all and all is with GOD
GOD comes to us in all ways and us to GOD
GOD exists to everything and everything exists to GOD
Force or Power is the ability to effect change and adjust the future when granted.
DESTINY or Endstation:
is the Will of GOD:
This means:
To the Non-Living:
It is the Force that acts upon them. It has many names that are collectively described by Science, Philosophy, Theology and Probability.
To the Living:
It is the Force or Power that acts and changes upon them.
It has many names that are collectively described as free will.
Science, Philosophy,Theology and Probability are the studies of this Force and Presence.
Free Will is the ability to make choices and effect changes in one’s life; the ability to exercise Force; the consequences, of which, is each one’s pathway to GOD.
GOD’s Network that comes from accepting the Absolute Truth.
Physically: the collective as a whole of the universe and hypothetical universes, all “living” and “non-living” things.
Mentally: the collective of knowledge and wisdom.
Spiritually & Religion: the collective of Faith and the Exercise and Practice of it.
Emotionally: the collective of Feelings and Emotions.
Creatively: the collective of Imagination and Figments of the Mind and Soul.
Communication: the intrinsic Fabric of the Network.
The Network is the Matrix with one owner and creator of all that is seen, felt, touched, perceived and accepted.
Wisdom: the collective of Knowledge, Understanding, Perspective and Views.
Heaven: the collective of “Good and Holy”; it is a place where God Exists through Everything and in Everything; It is the place where God is One with Everything and Everything leads back to God.
Hell: the collective of “Evil and Torment” it is a place where God’s Presence is absent, yet still reaches to the deepest level and corners of it, only to be away from His Presence as far that is prescribed by those Laws that He upholds.
A Miracle coming forth of His Presence and Glory is the growth of The Network: Creation and everlasting expanse of it. The actual increase of diversity through the span of time whether this is chronos or hypertime. The coalescence and the reflective of reason and intellect that transcends all intellect collective on earth, in and outside the universe, hypothetical universes.
Time is measurement in God’s pace; it is the flow of life; it is the span of God’s Life and the only measure and truth that can be accepted as the Absolute Truth…
God IS Life. All life is created by God. To trust in life is to trust in God; it is to believe in Supernatural Miracles. Miracles happen all the Time. Miracles are dynamic, science is static and limited by the in and output of humankind discoveries and writedowns of things that are already existing elsewhere.
Creation [Destruction]: is the improvement to The Network; it is Destiny and the Future. Some is pre-destined.
Evolving and adaption is part of Creation—through the span of Time; it is The Improvement to The Network; it is Destiny and the One and Only Absolute Truth that cannot be debunked by reason and intellect.
Life is the duration of One’s existence until the sleep of Death. Spiritual Life is everlasting and eternal; there is no death.
Consequences and choices are the changes to The Network and adapted by it and it’s history that now lies in the future.
The concepts of “Evil”, “Loss”, and “Wrong” is a judgment of cause and effect consequences and is often attributed to Destruction, Decay and Annihilation.
The concept of “Good”,”Profit”, and “Right” is The Judgment of cause and effect consequences and is often attributed to Creation and Manifestation of the Miraculous.
Judgments are the assessments of Consequences from a particular perspective.
The Judgment: is the Assessment of Consequences from One Particular Perspective.
The “meaning of life” is Love and end in GOD’s Love.
GOD’s Love is our Destiny and our Endstation.
Our Love is GOD’s Destiny.
There is no Truth that can compare to these Absolute Truths, nor in Science, nor in Philosophy, nor in Theology, nor in UFOism.
Further, any particular slice of the story doesn’t define any given character or situation. The character is only a whole character when the complete story is viewed from beginning to end. No individual person is fully present in any given “moment.” On any given page of our story we don’t see real persons; we only view agents and events. It’s only after our story completely unfolds that we have our character in full at the moment in time.
This is actually one view of what a person is and collectively believes. It’s called the perdurance view. You never have a whole person at any given point of time, only slices of a person. (this means, you only see what is written here in certain moment in time, not the whole person as he or she is) All the events of that person’s life amount to the whole person. It is a path, a path that is chosen to be walked upon. In a way, you’re not completely you until you’re gone. This is a Truth that cannot be comprehended at this particular moment when you read this, but when this life ends it has arrived in Destiny which is the Future. The Future which is Destiny imho is the arrival at the desk of God and seeing Him face to face and not what Science, Philosophy or Theology dictates. The Future has no room for “Aliens” until they have appeared and shaken hands with. Which will not happen, not here, not now, not anywhere at any given point.
However in Faith there will be and is an appearance from face to face after Destiny has arrived.
John said: “They have been observing ufos every night since September and catch them on film. It is undeniable that some extraordinary events are taking place.”
I want to see “footage” (which I very much doubt that this exists) of that and the credentials of the people who caught them on “candid camera” without having resorted to FX and computer graphics in the mix of it.
Found it already and yes it is rubbish again. A “white thing” in the air from far and far distance as usual. Nowhere there are aliens to be seen. Keep the hype up will ya.
God, if you exist, deliver us from religious nuts.
The president will never disclose the truth because it would be the end of our civilization. The respected, muckraking journalist, Jack Anderson came out with the truth about what the government knows. About how each president is briefed about alien contact. Those aliens are the ones responsible for the cover-up. If their existence is ever divulged to the public then our world would be destroyed. They have proven this capability to those in government who are in contact. Shortly after Anderson’s expose he was declared mentally incompetent and dropped from sight. After his death the FBI spent a lot of time and money trying to get his personal papers which went to his alma mater. They supposedly wanted them for his knowledge about another government secret. Most of the information he divulged has been expunged from the public record. Try finding any reference to what he wrote on the web.
Namaste, hehehehehe
You may infer that the reflective issue of your message of “deliver us from religious nuts” is of an activity of reason in your mind returning from the synthesis of intelligibility’s you think you grasp in this moment in time, what was stated up here and to it’s origin of what you think and you feel is the right answer to every natural and spiritual known principle manifested of your insight how life pertains and works to it’s core and abilities, whether by Science, Philosophy, Theology and Probability. But in your single synthetic apprehension of approach, the directives point out that with all your “remarks” it simply is proving that your motives are incapable of giving a clear judgment of counter facts that this is not true, whether sensitive, insensitive or intellectual. And you might find that your insufficiency of a normal answer is lacking by a true unconditional motive of truthfulness in situ or to pass even one single justified judgement or assent to this high intellectual matter that has been stated as an Absolute Truth and that this has been established as a fact in transition of the Future with the end-station Destiny. Which your think you can escape from.
Mawahahahahahahhahahaha
Yeah right !
I know for sure you will not escape from what Destiny as an end-station has planned for all of us. You only have to come to terms that one day you will like all of us Face it.
kj said “THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS ALL IN ALL:
god etc etc god god god god blah blah etc”
I don’t argue with fools like you so my only words will be ‘get a life’
“Nowhere there are aliens to be seen. Keep the hype up will ya. ”
Not once did they claim it was aliens and neither did I. They said they could not identify it. Make hype of that if you wish but it’s your own decision, not ours.
Namaste, kj isn’t just a religious nut, he’s a crazy extremophile. He should be sectioned, it’s shame he will have to go willingly. Maybe they will take him away non-voluntarily if he starts chewing on kittens on the street because they should be punished and go to hell.
Have the Polydactyls landed yet ? lol
Yesssssss John, on Truthed.com, they are talking about the “little green men”……. regarding that video you are talking about. Mawhahahhahahahahaa. Holds himself on the edges of his desk to secure himself not falling off his chair of laughter. Oh btw, life is awesome. How about crap-circles in Antarctica, the tief schnee (german) snowy variety, umm or bamboo and high savannah grass crap circles ? I mean there are so many options out there. Why always those food wasting crap circles ?
Here you can see the manipulation of pictures and how they are uncovered as fraud.
http://www.rense.com/general32/faking.htm
Ofcourse John has to declare everyone nuts again, but I guess he should go talk with Jonathan Reed and Jaime Maussan. They are frauds. Uncovered frauds. Frauds that keep up the UFO community regardless being uncovered as frauds. They are also keep posting pictures, videos and other crap.
As I said, I will believe if I can shake hands with an Alien one on one. Or one that comes out of all those UFO sightings that are claimed. I just know it will not happen. So therefore John is just saying I am a fool, but not that foolish that I believe the frauds that are going around. Which are many. So yes, keep the hype up.
I am not fooled. They don’t take me for granted.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dm2SYlwd8nY
Haha I just called you a fool on here kj, not everyone. It’s fine to have an open mind, but not so much that it falls out. You are a fraud just like the tin-foil hat folk and hoaxers when you cry out about your religious beliefs.
You cannot discredit all relevant ufo data collected from credible sources by trying to stick the garbage on us, so don’t bother trying. It just makes you foolish… again.
It’s interesting how you like to prove many claims to be fraudalent, yet your own claims are not proven.
There’s many kinds of foolish behaviour and no you don’t have to believe all crackpot theories true to be foolish. Calling just one of those a fact makes you a fool, although to say its speculation or a belief is not, providing you accept that you may be wrong with your assumptions.
Are you saying you’re not fooled by the youtube videos or you’re not fooled by the government about 9/11? Next you’ll claim you can derive an equation from the number of clouds in the sky and the flight numbers equal to the squared of 9 divided by 11 - that determines the next big terrorist attack.
This pseudoscience is amusing, it’s funny how they just make something up out of nothing and use this as a basis for an equation. They then relate several of these wild assumptions into a theory. Yes I’ve seen many youtube videos on this nonsense, and their pseudoscience involves faking videos as part of their agenda. There was a programme on Channel 4 TV in the UK a while back about WTC tower 7, which was inconclusive about their conspiracy claims. Yet they finished off with a white adolescent shouting “**** the government” repeatedly at the end. Hehe, I wouldn’t be surprised if most of these youtube videos have been made by angry college drop-outs. If you’re trying to convince someone of a conspiracy theory, you should firstly not insult the viewer, secondly provide some real evidence.
One particular video seems intent on reminding us that the plane disappeared and reappeared on the other side momentarily. Whilst this happened they claim that all news stations went temporarily off-air. This of course didn’t happen, and they used changed the evidence at hand to suit their beliefs.
If the government did plot 9/11 then there’s no actual evidence of it that has been discovered as of yet. Everything put forward has been explained adequately, but I’m always willing to listen to new claims. It’s definitely possible, but plausible, no.
Anyway funny video and some of it may be true, but you have to prove it first. Where’s World War 3, I thought you said things were going to appear to get much worse leading up the December. We’re almost in December.
The same make-believe pseudoscience is the basis for all christianity’s newest claims that humans were alive with the dinosaurs, and their bogus 6000 year old Earth claims. Just because they don’t understand how real maths derivation works and real Physics, it does not give them an excuse to make something up from scratch that does not even make sense, and put this forward as evidence. It’s evidence of stupidity if anything.
Or rather re-hashed over and over again claims by the christians. Even claims that have been thoroughly debunked get repeated without anything added, and these wierdos at speeches indoctrinate the sheep willing to listen.
You could even call David Dees’ artistic videos propaganda, as if you forced someone to repeatedly watch them you would start believing in it. Do you feel paranoia setting in yet kj, is the government out to get you too?
Can you give any dates when WW3 will begin, just to clarify when we can start to laugh at you.
John said: “Anyway funny video and some of it may be true, but you have to prove it first. Where’s World War 3, I thought you said things were going to appear to get much worse leading up the December. We’re almost in December.”
I never said LEADING up to the December month, when December is finished then you will see what has happened and how it all will be. You are twisting it as usual. Get some reading glasses man.
John said: “Can you give any dates when WW3 will begin, just to clarify when we can start to laugh at you.”
When the time is there. Keep laughing. Let me see if you still smile.
There is proof that humans did NOT live with Dinosaurs ? Where is that proven ? You just throw that in for a debate is it not ? I am not taking the bait, because if we have open that “can of worms”we do not end ever about debating that. You probably would not believe either, that there were 28 feet tall humans walking around in the past.
John said: “Hehe, I wouldn’t be surprised if most of these youtube videos have been made by angry college drop-outs. If you’re trying to convince someone of a conspiracy theory, you should firstly not insult the viewer, secondly provide some real evidence.”
Prove me that they are all innocent with the decisions that they have made as government. It is now necessary for the police to walk around with tazers. Of course it is not a police state is it now, huh ?
Your really are convinced that they are there to protect you ? Of course they are !!! Mawhahaha. You will find out if you are standing at the wrong side of the fence whose side they are on.
It is proven that high up police forces are high ranking Free Masons. Free Masons and the Builderberger’s is one and the same clique. Everything is secret. What is the urge and need of doing secret things in a place where no-one is allowed to come and film their parties. Same for Skull and Bones men what is called the Brotherhood of Death; it is born out of Hitlers “body guard” system in 1938-45.
The same is with the Skull and Bones emblem they had on the Nazi’s hats. It is still carried around by Americans who are members of it same way. Inside their secret meetings they are rallying about a skull of Geronimo and do unspeakable rituals and expressions. The point of it is ?? There is no need for secrecy in a Democratic Government body, yet still they are members of it and are leading many countries to destruction with their so called govern- “mental” skills. Yet many, including you, are ignorant of what really is taking place and decided behind closed doors. It is not in anyone’s interest what they decide for the gross public at large there in their secret meetings. They are supposed to represent “We the people”. But they are representing the “Co-operation” another name for “United States of America”. The United States don’t even exist in reality, it’s just a name. What they do is using fear tactics to slay you into shape, since otherwise they can’t control and subdue you. Throw in some UFO conspiracy and other conspiracies in it and you have the whole circus complete. Does this make any sense ? Not to me. Nor will I be subdued by those wicked people who have no interest in me as a person and have blackened their soul and consciousness. You only have to watch the movie The Good Shepherd with Matt Damon and Angelie Jolie on how they operate. Not that this film would show the complete reality, but I am sure it is not far off from it either. Just go talk to Fidel Castro he will tell you what really happened in that time.
You really think that I will and can be brainwashed by their systematic evil in application. When you point it out directly to them publically, they will imprison you, or even silently kill you. Like they did with this Cooper guy. That was in the time of Communism just the same and in the time with Mao Tse Toeng or North Korea with Kim Il Yong. Every where it is decided to control the masses and let them kneel at their feet to do their bidding.
Of course you have never heard about ECHELON, SIGINT, Wullenweber Antenna Array, MI5, MI6 and the NSA, just to name a few. They just sit there for the fun having a decent paid government job working for the safety of the public. Are you joking me ? You have no clue. You really think they are sitting there cosy for us to protect us. It proves how ignorant you are about what is really going on right under your nose. Why don’t you go and try and make phone-calls with your buddies and start mentioning a lot of names of persons in the government and say something bad about them. See how long it will take before they will be sitting in front of your home checking you out of what you are up to. Give it a go and see. But of-course you are a the citizen example, you won’t do such a thing.
You rather let yourself brainwash of the issues that are being projected daily towards you on screens, phones, adverts, and news broadcasts and take as gospel. Now that is what I call foolish and even dumb. I am not paranoid, just can’t be fooled with rubbish. One thing stands as a pole above the water, there is no denial about the above mentioned facts to be true. Bush and his cronies have protected themselves for the next 40 years changing the laws in the Supreme Court that he cannot be brought out for war crimes. That is why he has this particular grin on his face all the time. They write the law, they change the law whenever they think is applicable or suitable for them. It is definitely not “We the people” anymore. It never was by the way. This is clearly Dictatorship in the form of Democracy policy. Are you kidding me ? I knew you were dumb but you are dumber than I already knew you were. It is fine with me if you want to ostracize the facts that are playing right here and now. They only have to be set in stone one day to be accepted and history will prove that when they have arrived.
On top of this array of eavesdropping and intervention by the authorities there are no reports of Aliens sending messages over these institutions or what we are suppose to do. But actually they are just made up for the general populace to believe in so they can add some more fear-tactics, mystical and eerie feelings with it. The more the better, right ? This is to keep it all credible. Why the heck don’t Aliens show up and make an end to all these die hard speculations. They never do, they never will. Not here, not now, not ever. Most people love the fantastic speculation, so they can mull over it and it can be passed off as reality by the so called “credible” people in charge. What credibility do they have ? Astronaut, Government official, Military General, etc etc ???? The one’s that do all kinds of things in secret that might be very laughable at it’s credence ? Like guys who are directors in the Formula 1 racing and then dive in a cellar to play “little Hitler” with five prostitutes and then walk away with a libel case to prosecute a newspaper for reporting this ill health behaviour to society of how distorted they are ? I will be the last man to accept such type of distorted behaviour. It goes against every decent morals that need to be uphold to let a society function properly. Since they have all gone down the drain, that is why we are facing such crap everywhere we go. I am convinced that those are likely the people that are your kind of so called “credibility” people who laugh inside their fist on how they can put someone on a track in their psychological disturbances and been accepted as completely normal. I can just mention some of those so called credible people:
- Theodore Hook: creator of the Berners Street hoax of 1809, one of the finest set pieces in the history of practical jokes.
- Horace De Vere Cole: a man dedicated to practical joking, Cole’s most celebrated deception was the Dreadnought affair (1910), though he also did unspeakable things in a London theatre. - Spring-heeled Jack: in the 1830s Peckham residents were terrified by tales of a mystery assailant who vomited blue and white flames. An urban myth; a work of collective hysteria; or perhaps the prank of rebrobate peer.
- The claim by Mary Toft to have given birth to fifteen rabbits led to the dispatch of George I’s physician to investigate and to Toft becoming the ‘rabbit woman of Godalming’.
- As children Frances Griffiths and Elsie Wright created remarkably convincing photographs of fairies and winged gnomes, reproduced in Arthur Conan Doyle’s The Coming of the Fairies (1922).
- Earlier supernatural hoaxes include the supposed ghosts, Elizabeth Crofts—whose anti-Catholic protestations drew a crowd of 17,000 in 1554—and Elizabeth Parsons, whose performance as the ‘Cock Lane ghost’ caught Dr Johnson’s imagination in 1762.
- Princess Caraboo: as an exotic princess found wandering in Bristol in 1817, Caraboo attracted huge interest for her mastery of the Javasu language and the making of chicken curry. Her deception exposed, she was identified as plain Mary Willcocks of Witheridge, Devon
- Others known for creating false identities include the supposed Formosan, George Psalmanazar, and Hastings-born Archibald Belaney who, as Grey Owl, passed as a Native American and entertained the royal family with his wilderness tales.
And many others. Which you can find under Ufowatch.com regarding Aliens and UFO’s
John, are you telling me that I have to believe the so called “credible” people you try to put forward to me about UFO’s and Aliens and all their hoaxes? Sorry mate, but you have to come with better things than blurry pictures, videos and the like. There is no way in hell, that I am going to believe on iota from it, until I shake hands with an Alien and see a UFO by myself 1 meter close up. Until then I will and stay a sceptic, because there is no other way for me to go by. You keep laughing chappy, it don’t really matter to me. Until now it is all useless fodder to me.
And The Cow Jumped Over The Moon. Such lengthy detailed and complex comments. Far too many, and much too long. Never has so much boredum been offered, for so long, by so few. Cool it guys. There’s another Newsletter coming next week. Save some for it.
Sorry. Correct spelling is “boredom”. The lsst three letters are “dom”. I subconsciously wrote “dum”. (no doubt an error influenced by the nature of most of the written comments).
Agreed Lauraite Roly. I’m just sick of people choosing one set of beliefs to be true, yet feel it necessary to attack others. You can’t have it both ways. Attacking ufology and then preaching the bible is hypocritical.
KJ said leading up to December and during December the economy will collapse completely and WW3 will begin. Now he changes to end of December. Just for the record now you’ve changed your prediction slightly, if we get to January will you admit you were wrong?
Well go on then, quote me exactly that I said, WWIII starts at the beginning of December. Just as if I don’t know what I said ?
For the record, I never said any time span for WWIII to start. So stop lying.
It’s not hypocritical, it is justified to attack Aliens and UFO’s because it is not happening. Too bad for you.
If we have to believe Blossom Goodchild and others, we should now have seen the UFO’s that were predicted, but the whole conundrum is not taking off. Nor will it take off, ever.
When are we going to see UFO’s and Aliens from 1 meter distance, is there any prediction in the future ?????? Is there not someone who can offer them some fresh crop circles to chew upon with information that it is time to show up ? Until it happens we have to play with our big toe I guess.
You really are not going to take all that UFO and Alien thing serious is it ? I don’t. I am sure billions of poor Africans would not either. Poor UFO’s and Aliens they never show up in Zulu land. Are there no sightings there ? Those Aliens and UFO’s are respecters of persons.
Hey, if anyone has contact with them, can they ask them to send me an Email of Fax with their address in space ?
John is writing with his figment of imagination. Yelling a lot about this and that, but no cigar.
Will you admit that if by January when there are no UFO credentials that can be verified by a 5 year old child close up or an Alien showing up on TV, you are wrong about all this ?
Let me finish about some more Hoaxers.
I demand the following if UFO’s and Aliens is not a hoax but real.
1) I demand the scientific methodology that is used and show me the results presented not as ‘biased’ or ‘pseudoscientific’ or as ‘peergroup that is like-minded’.
2) I demand Any scientist or Academic appearing here to move away from orthodoxy and show me the real footage close up.
3) I demand peer review of any paper, magazine and flyers presented for publication.
4) I am not offering assistance of any kind of counter proofs, you prove it what you are saying is true.
5) I feel directed to heavily and widely publicise that ‘hoaxing’ and ‘fraud’ are the only explanations for what is reported so far, because I am sick of the stupid excuses and attacks about me as a passer by.
6) I call upon the organisation’s associates to provide the ‘expert’ viewpoint (whatever that is). I want the use of academic titles such as Doctor, Professor and Nobel Prize Winner to add ‘credibility’. Show me the guys that have the beef here.
7) I have to adopt a caring and protective attitude as a guardian of ‘ordinary’ people who could be ‘duped’ by unscrupulous ‘tricksters’ trying to make money out of them.
8) I counter any attacks against me as a professional as soon as practicable.
Another hoax that is and so is UFO’s and Aliens Theory:
“A surreal scientific blunder last week raised a huge question mark about the temperature records that underpin the worldwide alarm over global warming. On Monday, Nasa’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), which is run by Al Gore’s chief scientific ally, Dr James Hansen, and is one of four bodies responsible for monitoring global temperatures, announced that last month was the hottest October on record.
This was startling. Across the world there were reports of unseasonal snow and plummeting temperatures last month, from the American Great Plains to China, and from the Alps to New Zealand. China’s official news agency reported that Tibet had suffered its “worst snowstorm ever”. In the US, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration registered 63 local snowfall records and 115 lowest-ever temperatures for the month, and ranked it as only the 70th-warmest October in 114 years.
The GISS got the alarming numbers it wanted by carrying over some temperatures from the previous month. As even Al Gore probably knows, September tends to be warmer than October.
Hansen et al, were caught out not by the increasingly irrelevant mainstream media, but by the blogs Watts Up With That and Climate Audit. The GISS’s response was to discover a new “hotspot” in the Arctic — despite the fact that sea ice there is 30% more extensive than it was at this point last year.
Al Gore’s creepy friend Hansen has been milking the global warming hoax for a pretty penny. He and his taxpayer-financed henchmen have been caught using phony data before. To give an idea of his political leanings, Hansen has called for the arrest of oil company execs on charges of global warming denial.
A GISS spokesliar whines that his agency doesn’t have the resources to do quality control on the data it receives. This same bogus data is used by the UN to hype the media into a frenzy over the imaginary global warming catastrophe.
The entire farce has operated on the Big Lie theory that people will believe a spectacularly preposterous lie if you repeat it often enough. But in accordance with Abraham Lincoln’s theory that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time, there will continue to be resistance to this insidious bureaucratic power grab, hopefully even after global warming denial really is illegal.”
And so as this story is written up there, so is it with UFO’s and Aliens. Just put a so called “credible” person at it and we all believe it. Not me. So come up with your evidence, because I am getting weary and tired about the same type of pictures, video’s and stories etc. I want to see the real deal here and stop putting off on the responsibility towards the Government and Authorities and stop hiding behind it as an excuse. It will no longer do.
Another 800 billion dollar bail out. Are you going to pay it ?? Sure you are. Start faxing the UFO’s and Aliens so they can start saving from January onwards.
Well, I didn’t get a chance to read the entire thread of comments, but from what I read the same arguement was thrown back and forth a few times about whether there was any information to disclose or not, and if there was or wasn’t, would anyone be happy with ANY type of response. All of this is unclear, however, an interesting point to note that was on the latest CNN segment on aliens: Podesta (Obama’s head of transition staff) has spoke out in favor of disclosure, even saying “it’s the law.” Anyway, that’s my little contribution to this malarky of comments.
Update, Russian war ships in Venezuela who do joint exercises in the nearby ocean. Hmmmm.
http://voanews.com/english/2008-11-23-voa29.cfm
Russian warships have sailed into port in Venezuela for a series of joint military exercises that mark Russia’s first deployment in the Caribbean since the Cold War.
Update !!!!!
John, you want me to back it up with proof ? Good here it is.
RUSSIAN ANALYST PREDICTS DECLINE AND BREAKUP OF USA
Tue Nov 25 2008 09:04:22 ET
A leading Russian political analyst has said the economic turmoil in the United States has confirmed his long-held view that the country is heading for collapse, and will divide into separate parts.
Professor Igor Panarin said in an interview with the respected daily IZVESTIA published on Monday: “The dollar is not secured by anything. The country’s foreign debt has grown like an avalanche, even though in the early 1980s there was no debt. By 1998, when I first made my prediction, it had exceeded $2 trillion. Now it is more than 11 trillion. This is a pyramid that can only collapse.”
The paper said Panarin’s dire predictions for the U.S. economy, initially made at an international conference in Australia 10 years ago at a time when the economy appeared strong, have been given more credence by this year’s events.
When asked when the U.S. economy would collapse, Panarin said: “It is already collapsing. Due to the financial crisis, three of the largest and oldest five banks on Wall Street have already ceased to exist, and two are barely surviving. Their losses are the biggest in history. Now what we will see is a change in the regulatory system on a global financial scale: America will no longer be the world’s financial regulator.”
When asked who would replace the U.S. in regulating world markets, he said: “Two countries could assume this role: China, with its vast reserves, and Russia, which could play the role of a regulator in Eurasia.”
Asked why he expected the U.S. to break up into separate parts, he said: “A whole range of reasons. Firstly, the financial problems in the U.S. will get worse. Millions of citizens there have lost their savings. Prices and unemployment are on the rise. General Motors and Ford are on the verge of collapse, and this means that whole cities will be left without work. Governors are already insistently demanding money from the federal center. Dissatisfaction is growing, and at the moment it is only being held back by the elections and the hope that Obama can work miracles. But by spring, it will be clear that there are no miracles.”
Capice ?
Now lay down and be quiet ok, because I am right.
Update for John,
Israel: Hizbollah arsenal has tripled in size
Israel has accused Lebanon’s militant Shia group Hizbollah of tripling its arsenal to 42,000 rockets, many with a range long enough to reach beyond Tel Aviv.
By Tim Butcher in Jerusalem
Last Updated: 11:47AM GMT 25 Nov 2008
In a rare speech to a full parliament in Jerusalem, Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, said that Hizbollah’s rearmament programme meant the group now has three times the number of rockets it had in the run-up to the 2006 Lebanon war.
“The firepower of Hizbollah has grown threefold since the Second Lebanon War,” said Mr Barak.
“It has missiles that can reach the towns of Ashkelon, Beersheba and Dimona [in southern Israel more than 125 miles from the Lebanese border].
“Today Hizbollah has 42,000 missiles and they are all directed to Israel.”
The figures supported claims made by Sheikh Nabil Kaouk, a Hizbollah commander, in an interview with The Telegraph in August, when he said the group had built up its military arsenal significantly.
Israel has also indicated that the recent integration of Hizbollah into the Lebanese government has changed the thinking of Israeli military commanders.
Israeli commanders have warned that the integration would justify attacks on government infrastructure in Lebanon in the event of another clash with Hizbollah.
It was a cross-border raid into Israel by Hizbollah that sparked the 2006 conflict.
Eight Israeli soldiers were killed in the raid and two others, Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev, were captured after being mortally wounded, prompting a heavy air and ground assault by Israel.
Over 1,000 Lebanese civilians died along with 43 Israeli civilians, who were mostly killed by Hizbollah rockets fired across the border.
The issue of Hizbollah’s rearmament was meant to have been dealt with by the ceasefire agreement drawn up to the end the 34-day conflict.
The agreement forbids the rearmament of Hizbollah although this has not been adhered to in part because of a lengthy political crisis that deadlocked the workings of the Lebanese government for 18 months.
With Iranian money and weapons, and the support of Syria which provides transport links, it is an open secret that Hizbollah has been busy rebuilding its military might in southern Lebanon.
A new resupply road, paid for by Iran, connecting southern Lebanon to the Bekaa valley was discovered last year by The Telegraph.
Are you still with me John, or are you putting your head in the sand again as usual ?
It appears that to-day’s intensive debating between correspondents has caused another news release from Global News Interterra , as herewith:
Global News Interterra…….
HIGHER FORCES DIG IN HEELS COMBINING RESCHEDULING WWIII SCRIMMAGE FORCING KATUFOLYST TO UNVEIL CULTURAL TIMING STRATEGY ON PRESIDENTIAL DOWNLOADS REGARDING ONLINE REVELATION OF RESTRICTED DEALS AFFECTING EXTRAPLANETARY INTERVENTION AND DEPARTURE. WASHINGTON RELEASES PREPARED SUSPENSIONS AS STILL PENDING CHANGING FACEFORCE DOWNLOADS.
WASHINGTON SPECULATES TERMINATION OF EXPULSIONARY DETAILS TILL YEAR END. WEATHER PERMITTING.
GLItera November 25, 2008.
I sure hope OUR guys can simmer down for a while. Things are just a little too hot and heavy right now. (this being Thanksgiving, and all).
Let’s keep it simple huh Roly Poly,
Let me expand of what I am going to say what I said.
The Third World War was foreseen to be between Zionism and Islam which we all know. This prediction is incredible in many ways, beginning with the understanding that this prediction of a third world war occurred in 1870, a time when Israel did not exist as a nation, and when no one believed it would ever exist again.
The vision predicted that out of the smoke and destruction of this World War, a new leader will stride triumphantly, to put an end to the War, and to finally give the embattled world “Peace and Safety”.
Interestingly, to back up this prediction, a report was released in December 1996 by The U.S. House of Representatives’ Task Force On Terrorism And Unconventional Warfare. It was entitled, ‘Approaching the New Cycle of Arab-Israeli Fighting’. In brief, the report tells us that such nations as Syria, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and Egypt are planning and building for a final, devastating war of annihilation against Israel. This includes acquiring nuclear, biological and chemical weapons (NBC) in a mix with conventional weapons, e.g. tanks, aircraft, and soldiers, all in massive, overwhelming numbers.” [P. 43]
Oh well, I guess you will see it when you see it. Just have patience ok. It is coming soon for ya.
Well KJ, what you say, kind of paraphrases what is contained in the Global News Interterra release, more or less. And I’m with you for keeping it simple.
Madeira is beautiful Roly, been there several times and have travelled more than 2000 km around the island in total. Stunning, lovely, awesome.
I agree the world is close to another world war. But I don’t think they’d be willing to go nuclear would they?
Is there anywhere safe in the UK Island, or can I say that we must be doomed? lol
Well, start digging your bunker, eh !
Being close to a war does not mean one is inevitable. We’ve been on the brink many times, some of them by accident, others similar to today’s scenario. Arguably things are worse than they’ve ever been, but since we’ve never had a full scale nuclear war before, it’s difficult to say how bad things have to be for that to happen. What I’m saying is that the situation could be worse, there could be dwindling oil & water resources, i.e. it could be in another 10-20 years from now when nuclear war becomes inevitable.
To determine that our only outcome in the current situation is nuclear annihilation is only fear-mongering.
And really did somebody actually predict this exactly word for word? Or is the evidence as usual extremely sketchy.
And please don’t refer to hidden bible codes, as you can take any written book and do the same and find words like Bin Laden, Israel destruction etc.
On a lighter note, how far deep shall I dig? Which cities would be targets in the UK? Or will the nukes be hydrogen fusion bombs? In which case not even the countryside will be safe. I doubt an average size bunker would survive in the epi-centre of a blast of that size, unless it was mega-deep. You would only die from starvation or lack of clean water, or radiation anyway if you were in a bunker. Better to be out with the camera taking shots and uploading ‘em to lots of Internet servers which are located in remote locations. Your photo of yourself and a big nuclear explosion would be part of the history books. Speaking of recorded history, a large scale nuclear war would wipe the current history books clean, presuming nothing substancial remains, there would be lots of blanks. Unless some mega intelligent historian survives and re-write them all for the survivors to learn.
JOINT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE 1967 REVIEW
Annex A to COS 1929/2/11/67
Probable Nuclear Targets in the United Kingdom: Assumptions for Planning:
Most targets were expected to be attacked by both missiles and aircraft, usually with 4 x 500-kiloton airburst weapons. London was expected to be targeted with 10 weapons totalling 9 megatons.
Major Cities:
Glasgow, Birmingham, Liverpool, Cardiff, Manchester, Southampton, Leeds, Newcastle, Bristol, Sheffield, Swansea, Hull, Middlesborough, Coventry, Wolverhampton, Leicester, Stoke-on-Trent, Belfast, Edinburgh, Nottingham
———————————————
This list would probably include large towns as well now.
So the entire country then would be destroyed, oh dear!
That’s a pretty comprehensive list. Guess there’s no point running to Greenoch; or Port Glasgow either for that matter.
Not matter who is office, the Government of the United States has always kept a major amount of secrets.
Democrats, as well as Republicans have kept so many secrets about so much … We wouldn’t know what we do about the activity of the CIA through Democratic and Republican administrations of earlier decades, for example, if weren’t the Congressional hearings in the 1970s.
Don’t expect any revelations about UFOs in the near future, that’s for sure!
That is, unless, you (all!) have the wherewithal to do something about it - you can begin by writing your congressperson.
KJ does your prophet (*ahem*)… (scammer) say which countries are on which sides:
I would guess that there would be team (a):
NATO (USA, Britain, France, Germany, Canada, Poland, Holland, Italy? Spain?…)
Israel, Japan, Australia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Georgia, Ukraine? India? Turkey?
team (b):
Russia, China, Iran, Venezuala, Belarus, Pakistan, Al Qaeda African countries, Syria, Palestine, Hezbollah (controlling Lebanon) Egypt? Rest of Arabs?
—————————————–
Iraq and Afghanistan would depend on how they build up their security forces in the coming months/years. Ukraine would depend on whether they give in to the Russians, or if the Russian spy Yulia Tymoshenko gets her way. It seems they could join NATO soon as they are intending to join membership action plan in December 2008. (Could this spark Russian invasion of Crimea as another lead up to WW3). Anyway if you don’t know Yulia Tymonshenko google her, she’s a hottie lol. India may remain neutral as they can’t fit both Pakistan and China on home soil. Although recent events may force them to. China will obviously side with Russia, it’s just basic geography that helps them choose sides, and the fact that commies stick together. Turkey has a problem, they’ve got EU commitments but may be drawn East. Spain and Italy may not want to get involved.
I would expect the US to start a land invasion of Western Pakistan in the New Year by February. With Israel likely to attack Iran, and Russia to send peacekeepers (aggressors more like) into separatist areas in Baltic states & Ukraine, would European countries want to commit troops to a war against Iran and Pakistan? And with Iraq & Afghanistan already having to be occupied. Maybe not with the Russian’s at their backdoor. Things could start going down the pan quickly if these turn of events unfolded.
If I’ve missed any country off the list, let me know and if you disagree with the sides I’ve suggested.
Even in the case of an all out nuclear war I’m still glad I’m with team (a). Do you expect the Russians and Chinese to pose a big problem that we can’t handle? Surely we can handle the Chinks 1970’s Soviet tech, and the Russian’s don’t even have satellite communications for their troops. In Georgia in the summer the Russians relied on mobile phone comms for troop movement, and their tanks broke down often and some troops even went hungry. Maybe their nukes are so dusty they won’t fire, or even better explode on takeoff over Putin’s house.
Anyway Putin and Medvedev are no better than terrorists. Hitler couldn’t break us, neither will Putin the terrorist bully and his middle eastern thugs.
Add N. Korea to team (b) axis of evil. And S. Korea & Taiwan to team (a) allies.
You know these attacks in India whether or not linked to Al Qaeda, it benefits them since India is now accusing Pakistan’s involvement and therefore souring any warming relationship between the two countries. Therefore Pakistan is unlikely to use its troops based on the Pakistan-Indian Kashmir border to fight Al Qaeda in Western Pakistan. This means Obama will be forced to send in ground forces to deal with the problem, and possibly fight Pakistan’s army as well if they resist them entry. So I doubt Obama will have time for ufo disclosure, this part 2 of the war on terror will get nasty.
Say there, John and KJ. If you guys keep sounding off like this, we’ll never get a UFO to land here. At least not one that the passengers will feel safe enough to step out of.
Is this the new site for GLP jam session or the comment section for Billy’s poll on UFO disclosure and Obama?
Come on Billy this is getting out of hand.
Does anyone know if Albert Einstein ever said anything about UFO’s? Also, Stephen Hawking?
dont anyone see whats going on ?
ufo shows are exploding , history , discovery, national geographic all have shows on ufos .
all the new channels have been increasing ufo storys .
even countries are releasing their ufo files.
ufo’s are in mainstream media now , and they don’t make the persons look like they are nuts.
the universe show on history has been slowly teaching us about how things are in the universe.
disclosure is a slow process that will take few years for these things to become reality .
youll see full disclosure in our life time ,it will just take time for the information to become mainstream .
As a retired military man, who held a security clearance I realize how far removed the president is from the UFO phenomenon. These secrets are managed by intermediate level goverment service workers who have seen many administrations come and go. They hold no allegence to anyone, be it president or citizen. In order to break the seal in which the UFO phenomenon is being held, new oversight authority in this area is essential.
Marvin ? Marvin? Is that you ? Marvin, the Paranoid Android ?? lolol.
I am sure I am not the paranoid android that KJ speaks of. However, I have made my share of enemies over the past 30 years of my ufological investigative life. Here’s a freebie: Look into project Blue Beam.
Obama doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground, how does anyone think that he knows anything about UFOs.
It has to be considered logical that President Obama, and every other President elect for that matter has about as much knowledge of UFO related information as we do. They (Presidents new and old) don’t seem to be the ones pulling the strings when it comes to stuff like this. President Bush could barely hold his own in front of a camera, and our current President, well qualifications for leader of the free world should probably include “can give a speech without a teleprompter”, Do I think the President will help out with UFO information, no, but I sure hope I am wrong. Take care.
I believe the ufo phenomenon is bigger than they just exsist. I believe weve had technologies for yrs and if the american public finds out that weve been dupped, we are going to be extremeley angry. In that, we havent needed oil for several yrs and its just the rich controlling everything and i also believe its much more than only that